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Add Forum to Favorites | Send Topic To a Friend | View Forum FAQ | Track this topic Page: 1 2 »» |
Last Thread Next Thread |
| Game Development Schools Part 1 |
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Darkor Member since: 6/1/2000 From: Singapore, Singapore |
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 Posted - 9/23/2001 8:41:22 AM |
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| The link to Ngee Ann Polytechnic is broken. I believe it should be http://www.np.edu.sg/ |
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a_Thinker Member since: 4/20/2002 From: USA |
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 Posted - 4/20/2002 6:32:19 AM |
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| Great article, thanks for the great info! I look forward to part II, and hope it will cover more schools, including University of Advancing Computer Technology ( www.UACT.edu ) in Arizona, and coverage of distance learning programs. ~~Alex~~ Proud member of the Fate of Io RPG project -- www.FateOfIo.org -- now entering the second year of production. [edited by - a_Thinker on April 20, 2002 6:34:05 AM] |
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foofightr Member since: 7/15/1999 From: Vancouver, Canada |
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Posted - 5/23/2002 11:27:16 PM |
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| Very good article. Perhaps if there is a part 2 you could include CDIS in Burnaby, BC (Canada). They offer game programming and computer animation classes. It's at www.artschool.com |
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IamTheOne Member since: 7/3/2002 From: India |
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 Posted - 7/3/2002 7:39:52 PM |
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| First of all thank you for such an article, the last paragraph about making selection of college is very good. As the topic is game developement schools, i have few questions. 1. How these school's program is compared to Standard university programs. If u are doing BS degree in any of the university, or Masters degree also, for computer Science, Almost every university has 3-4 computer graphics courses. Most of them cover basic concept, also some of them cover reserach topics too. I would appreciate if u could comment on the quality of these courses, compared to taking a computer graphics course in university, for example Graphics coures at University of southern california (www.usc.edu) 1. Computer graphics CS480 2. 3d Graphics and rendering 3. Multimedia and communication 4. Computer Visiion 5. AI ... list goes on? What is different /special is taught in such a school as compared to universities. thank you. Neo. P.S. My loginname suggest no offens, its just that i didn't get the login name Neo  may be i was not the one then... |
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Avengr Member since: 8/16/2002 |
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Posted - 8/16/2002 11:34:47 PM |
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| I am currently attending Full Sail and although I just started and do not know what the other courses are like I can say what I have heard. My first comment is on the authors decision on what cause the nearly 50% drop out rate for game design. I think he was pretty close. Most of the students want to design games but not develop them. The program name is misleading becuase the Common name is Game Design but the full name is Game Design and Development. the class that the majority of students decide to drop or fail is C++ an 8 week pretty intensive course. Full Sail expects the program you are in to be your dream and hence they assume you will put a lot of effort into it and you must work hard to keep up. As far as the classes.... All the classes here that others teach too are similair in content to other schools maybe with the exception that all the examples are for games. Like when you learn AI you learn path finding and decision making all with game examples. where as another AI class may use non game examples. There are also game specific courses you will find in few places. Multimedia and Communication may differ here because Full Sail is a heave Recording Arts school so a lot of stuff involves refrences and examples relating to Recording arts... but the content should be the same. Keep in mind also the classes here are literally 24/7 just about especially as you get further in. It is not uncommon to have a 30 hour day a week near the end if not more. From what I have seen though all the classes are top notch. And the one thing I hear from like everybody is. "you get out of it what you put into it" Full Sail teaches to you as someone who loves what you want to do. they expect you to be professional and responsible. They give you a lot of responsibility, show you how to network and give you all the tools and show you how to sue them. Its up to your creativity to take it from there. I think I just tried to give a lot of answers in little space =P Im not here to promote full sail for full sail I just like what I see. Im only a first month student here but I have gotten out of a couple classes and will be doing the core classes soon. One last note the Author mentions it is pricey... this is true but a couple things have to be considered You pay approximately 30,000 for the program.. in one year. However in reality you are learning 2-2.5 years worth of stuff. All books are already included in tuition. Game design tuition includes the cost of a laptop that everyone gets when they start C++. All labs from then on you will use your laptop for your programming. So I dont think the cost is terrible... but then again maybe I will when I start paying off my loan I had to take =P |
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Anonymous Poster |
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Posted - 11/21/2002 3:40:14 AM |
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| I am a FullSail student in my 9th month. I am currently taking the Structure of Game Design course and Rules of the Game course (this class is taught by none other then Dave Arneson one of the original creators of Dungeons and Dragons!!! – very cool). To give an insight into Full Sail I thought I would respond to this article. Full Sail is an extremely difficult school. In any of the degrees you take at this school it is important to understand what FullSail is like. If you are not 100% committed YOU WILL FAIL! I don’t say this to scare people away it is just a reality. The school is 24/7 and you WILL be going to class in the middle of the night. I am currently writing this at 3am after finishing my work from a class that ended at 1am. If you do not have the resolve to put everything on hold (including sleeping or any other component of a “normal” life) FullSail is not a school for you. The reality of the school is you are getting a degree in 15months and to do this the work comes fast and furious. You do get a few years of education out of your experience and trust me you will live over two years of work in that time frame. Due to this compressed nature of the course attendance is paramount. In the any class, missing more then 10% of class time causes you to fail that class. Even with excused attendance you may only miss up to 20% of the class. So if you get hit by a car or a bolt of lighting (which in Orlando there is plenty of) and you have a valid excuse, you will be held back to redo the class NO EXCEPTIONS!! It is difficult enough to deal with the attendance issue on it’s own. I have had my far share of success at the school and sport a rather good GPA. I have been held back due to attendance in a class I achieved a 90+ average in. The article lists poor teaching as a possible reason for the failure rate. This simply is not true. The teachers are all extremely experienced and most have worked in or still contribute to the industry. They are also a lot of fun (the class with the highest drop out/failure rate is C++ and trust me, Arthur will keep you interested on his personality alone). The majority of the overall failure rate is the policies and practices of the school it’s self (this due again to the compressed nature of the degree). In terms of the work load for the game design degree prepare yourself to work all the time. I would suggest that a potential attendee of FullSail without programming knowledge pick up a beginners book and try coding. If you don’t love it, not only is FullSail not for you but neither is the industry. It may come off as though I am painting the school as barbaric. That is not my intention. As you will soon learn form those that teach you (people who have experienced working in the industry) the school prepares you for the kind of intense work you will be doing in the industry. So, in the end, surviving FullSail means you can survive in the timeline driven world of the game industry. In that respects the schools saying is true , it is a “Real World Education”. What I have gained in FullSail in a short period of time I look back on with pride and amazement. Sticking it out and persevering has been and continues to be one of the most rewarding (be it the most difficult) experience of my life. (Wondering why I would check out a web site on gaming education well in school. I look around the web every once in a while to see how FullSail stands. If you do the same you will find it and Digipin are listed first every time.) |
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Laz Member since: 9/20/2001 From: Del Rio, TX, United States |
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 Posted - 11/22/2002 3:42:02 PM |
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| I agree with Anonymous Poster. I am going into my 6th month at Full Sail. Starting on Tuesday I will be taking Fundamentals of Windows Programming and on Wednesday I start Physics and Math. We had a class of about 50, and after C++ (yes, Arthur is AWESOME ... he's so ... odd) we lost about half of our class due to failures. The school is very hard at times, and very well worth it. If anyone is interested, I am keeping track of my progress at Full Sail on my website (http://www.lameware.com). I am also uploading projects that I have done (or have done in a group) so people can see what comes out of full sail. If you decide to go, be prepared for long nights, lots of headaches, and TONS of fun! -Nick _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/http://www.lameware.com _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ [edited by - Laz on November 22, 2002 3:44:52 PM] |
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Avengr Member since: 8/16/2002 |
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Posted - 1/15/2003 2:14:32 AM |
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| Hey Nick Anywho me again, checking in yet again. Now in my 7th month also I must say this place is awesome. I use to wonder what Digipen is like.. I use to wonder if one is better than the other... I still cant answer that question as I have never even seen Digipen but I will say this. I have had the privledge of being in what I interpret to be the most active and ambitious class I have seen here. They literally kick butt. I dont even think of Digipen anymore. I have looked at some of the games that their students enter in the IGF and they look good, but I plan on giving their 4 year students quite a run for their money with my game in the 2004 IGF. One guy in class brough it upon himself to make a 3d like 2d game with scrolling background and such with clouds where you can move up and down all using window gdi when we had to make pong in Windows Programming. When asked to make Tic Tac Toe I didnt stop till I had a scaleable AI all the way up to unbeatable. Another guy had 3D looking pong, yet another had AI that anticipated the ball and didnt just follow it. Granted this wouldnt be impressive if it were an AI class but it was windows programming and all we needed was a basic AI, in fact the teacher just about gave us the AI. The atmosphere here is awesome, also since my last post I have taken C++ and as expected those who didnt have their heart totally into it failed from attendance or grades. There are a few cases where the heart was there but they just cant pull it off as well the first time through, but then again learning C++ for 8 hours a day, 3 days a week, for 8 weeks isnt easy with another class 3 other days a week at the same time. Especially since there were quite a few people in my class who had CS degrees no less that said it was the most thorough and rigorous C++ class they had ever seen. I have studied the posted grade sheets and i have noticed that the only people who fail after C++ are for attendance (99% of the time) Anywho if anyone wants to know more detailed information of a students perspective here at Full Sail from one of the most active students in one of the most active classes about 7 months into Full Sail in they can email me at dclyde@ameinc.com |
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KaYo Member since: 3/8/2003 From: USA |
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 Posted - 3/8/2003 11:24:51 AM |
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| I'm currently in a Magnet High School for technology and I'm studying Digital Design. My DREAM is to become a Video Game Programmer. It dosen't matter to me if I'm a programmer, designer or even a writer, I just want to help make video games! So anyway, I'm planning my future but I have a problem. DigiPen or Full Sail? When I first decided what I wanted my career to be I first came across DigiPen. So from 8th grade to early 9th I just knew I was going to DigiPen. But I live in Tampa,FL and my parents don't like me going ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY for college. But they said "If it's your dream, go ahead." So I was surfing this site called Gamasutra and I found a college called Full Sail. I freaked out! Full Sail is just 2 hours from where I live, not to mention it's just as prestigious as DigiPen. BUT THEN, I found out that Full Sail stuffs 2 years of education in 1 year!! I don't know about you Full Sail students out there but I like to sleep. So, someone PLEASE HELP ME!!! DigiPen or Full Sail????!!!! A brain without a reason is just a lump in a skull.  |
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ManaStone Member since: 6/13/2000 From: Springfield, IL, United States |
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Posted - 3/8/2003 11:45:38 AM |
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| What article are you talking about? All I see is a home page. Edit: nevermind, I didn't realize this was an old post or that it was on the article feedback forum. [edited by - manastone on March 8, 2003 11:52:05 AM] |
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DanielMClark Member since: 3/15/2003 From: USA |
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Posted - 3/16/2003 12:46:40 PM |
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| A couple of points about Full Sail... I'm in my 13th month out of 14, so you can take my word for this stuff. First, the hours are not crazy. I'm not sure why they do it (probably because of the Audio program though), but the first 3 months of mini-school, they make you go to labs at 1 in the morning for some classes. [Note:] Mini-school for new attendees is only two months... lucky basta- Ahem. Once you get into the core classes, the hours are the same as anywhere else in the industry. Classes and labs are done in 8 hour blocks. You go to school 8 hours a day (generally). You go from 9am - 5pm, 1pm - 9pm, or 5pm - 1am. That's it. After the second month of school, you'll never have to be here at 5am again. Second, you'll always have at least 8 hours between classes. This might not seem like a lot, but you have to consider the other side. For example, let's say I have a class from 5pm to 1am on Monday. Then I've got a class from 9am to 5pm on Tuesday. Sucks right? But the Monday class is repeated on Wednesday, so I've got 12 hours between Tuesday and Wednesday. That was my schedule two months ago... and while it might seem weird, I also had weekends off. Trust me, it ain't that bad. Third, yes, the program is referred to as Game Design, though it's properly Game Design and Development. I don't think anyone is misled by exactly what the program is about if they take two seconds to ask someone about it though. Anyone who enrolls in the school without finding out there's programming involved didn't do his research - at all. Not even a little bit. Full Sail makes a big deal about the programming we do - 900 hours of C++ before graduation (though I think that's a little bit low estimate!). Finally, about the drop-out rates. The most frequent thing I've observed here is that people sign up for this school because they like to play video games, and they figure they can make them. That's not enough. I like to watch hockey, but that doesn't mean I've got what it takes to be a hockey player. My advice for anyone who wants to break into the industry is this: DO SOME RESEARCH. I knew exactly what the deal was when I came here because I did the research. My friend Chris, who started with me in Minischool then failed C++, didn't do his research. He didn't know what programming was about, and he discovered (after he plunked down $32,000) that he didn't like it! KaYo: if you only live 2 hours away, come on out here and check it out firsthand! Arrange for a private tour, and tell them you want to tour ONLY the Game Design specific areas. If I wasn't in Final Project now, I'd offer to take you around myself, but if you want to have lunch or something, send me an email. Me and a few of the guys will take you out and give you the straight scoop. Cheers, Daniel |
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X WARLORD Member since: 3/19/2003 From: USA |
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Posted - 3/19/2003 8:21:42 AM |
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| I`m married with children and I can`t afford to just pack up and go to a school in another state. I ran across the Game Institute (www.gameinstitute.com) and I seen where they are offering online courses. Does anybody have anything good or bad to say about the Game Institute? Also, would there classes even count in job searching? I don`t think there offering credits for there classes yet, because there fairly new and looking for partners. Thanks in advance for any responce. |
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Kathleen Member since: 3/19/2003 From: USA |
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Posted - 3/19/2003 1:28:45 PM |
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| How do you know if you are ready for the Game Program and Development at Full Sail. My son wants to attend in the fall. He has been accepted at UGA and has the oppurtunity to attend on the HOPE scholarship which will pay the tuition. He can start with an undeclared major and take liberal arts core classes. I feel it would benifit him to get at least 2 years of education there b/4 taking on the intensity of the Full Sail program. How much programming do you need to prepare you for the C+ program that I have read about there? I know that the hands on experinece and expertise he would gain at Full Sail would give him the extra edge in the job market, but what about the having some diversity thrown in there too? [edited by - Kathleen on March 23, 2003 6:05:56 PM] |
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TKul4U Member since: 3/25/2003 From: USA |
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 Posted - 3/27/2003 12:52:17 PM |
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| To help possible incoming students to Full Sail, could anyone please post the textbooks they use. Especially for C++, because this seems to be the worrisome class. Thanx We can choose to throw stones, to stumble on them, to climb over them; or we can build with them. -William Arthur Ward |
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The_Zosma Member since: 4/25/2003 |
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Posted - 4/25/2003 3:13:03 PM |
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| UAT (University of Advancing Technology) is now #2 in the nation for game development. this is a very intense program that offers an accredited B.S. degree in Software Engineering. That's right. You graduate as an engineer with an emphasis in game development. This school is growing so fast because it offers a four-year degree...something that is in very high-demand in the game industry today. Full Sail and DigiPen do not offer this. This is why UAT has an advantage. I am a junior and have had numerous job offers for entry level game programmer positions and many other computer related jobs...systems analyst, application engineer, software engineer, etc. This school is not for the meek. There are many basic and advanced programming languages taught and high-level math and physics are pre-requisits for the engineering degree. The student body is very elite. Check out this link to learn more. www.uat.edu Good Luck! |
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Canazza Member since: 5/20/2003 From: United Kingdom |
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Posted - 5/20/2003 3:45:36 PM |
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| I'm upset, you didn't mention the Unversity of Abertay in Dundee, it has a computer games development course, the only one in Scotland, and the course i'm hoping to do in september :D 11th Hour Productions |
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Basketball89 Member since: 9/19/2003 From: Norway |
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Posted - 10/11/2003 5:05:03 PM |
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| Hello. I'm from norway. I'm nots sure you know about it (it's in Scandinavia, just next to Denmark. I want to go for the full sail Game Design And developement thing. But from where I live it's about a fifteen hour flight, over the sea. I just want to know that I get what I pay for. I'm not rich, neither are my parents, how did you guys get the money? |
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Polymorphic OOP GDNet+ Member since: 5/6/2003 From: Redmond, WA, United States |
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Posted - 10/11/2003 5:17:48 PM |
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quote: You really should research before posting. DigiPen DOES offer a 4 year degree -- not only that but each semester is loaded with about 6 or 7 classes on average. It's a 154 credit major. DigiPen's Real Time Interactive Simulation required courses go more in-depth in programming, theory, math and physics combined than just about any other single major offered by any school that I've come across. |
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pushpop Member since: 2/6/2004 From: Eugene, USA |
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Posted - 2/6/2004 6:33:49 PM |
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| Digipen: Macintosh/SNES? What are you talking about? I took a summer course at digipen, and I didn't see a single mac. We programmed in C with a helper program called "FUN", which put together animations, state-machines and level structures for us. These games ran on Windows. Most graduates get instant job offerings at Microsoft and Nintendo anyway, so they'd probably be learning something more current than SNES console (or this article is years old). I also happen to know that the DigiPen students hate Full-Sailers with a passion. DigiPen is a much more serious school, where you've work all day every day, including weekend time. However, they claim to teach you more in one year than the average four year computer science degree somewhere else. (I've been accepted there, myself, but I'm waiting to see if I can get CMU) Thirdly, what's this about learning on 2 year old computers? You should be glad to have an old *nix box around to code C with, and make simple graphic routines. As if you'd need to make so many polygon's as it takes to play current computer games. I still have a 1998 computer around the house (that's 6 years by now) and it's still pretty useful (though we've gutted it a bit and the hard drive is new. Oh, and that doesn't even get into some of the stuff they've got at school). Keep your computer defragged and memory-happy, with a good enough graphics card, and it shouldn't have to be 'bought within the year'. That's kinda crazy. (What about upgrades?) In conclusion, I would like to say I think this article is blatantly Full-Sail propaganda, and that serious students should look at other schools too, and consider things more seriously before just jumping on what seems to be an easy two-year degree. |
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Aquartabla Member since: 4/25/2004 From: Lincoln, USA |
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Posted - 4/25/2004 3:29:43 AM |
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| I am just a few weeks from graduating high school. my dream has been to make video games for along time now, and i am very comited, 100%. however i am also 100% comited to my girlfriend,(hey that adds to 200%, oh well) so i will not be atending full sail or digi pen for at least two years when we are ready to leave. (she wants to be a vet) I live in Lincoln NE (USA), and i will atend UNL for two years, and to be quite honest, i'm not sure why, so my first question is, do you think 2 years of non-core classes at the University of Nebraska will be at all helpfull in my future carrer? i intend to take many math classes and whatever they offer in any programing languege. I'v had a semester in ture BASIC for the mac, not to mention playing with the bacic on my TI-83+, the basic class is slow paised for me, and i am easly the top student in the class, in fact this last week we started double subscripted variables (now i know all of you allready at the vid-game schools are thinking, thats super easy, thats not something you should have to work at, you should just know it) and i totaly agree, i tought myself how to use the subcripted varibles via calculator long before they showed us in class, so naturaly i wiped right through it and have spent the last two days making a snake game from text after geting my hands on the only text book with an index of codes in the entire class room which the teacher holds onto for safe keeping. anway, i want to know more about these two schools, digi pen and full sail. so far i've only heard from one digi pener, who by the way, if he was any more full of himself and his school it would be driping out of his ears! And i have heard from alot of full sail people, which by the way is the school i'm leaning towards. and i already have a horable sleeping schedual, so i'm sure i'd fit right in, plus, the people at full sail seem alot cooler, as does their program. the article made digi pen seem like a morg. now i'm all for puting in the esential basics and knowing the theory behind things, but is all this really nessary, do employers really care? and most importantly, will i be benifited the same? also, im not in this for the cash, but that does not mean its not nice, i've heard conflicting figures on slaries of the people in this field. how much will i make starting if i barly pass or how much if i finish at the top of my class (i expect to be near the top) also does that partialy depend on which school I graduate from,(digi or full) and how much can i expect to make after being in the buisness a few years, or ten or twenty or thirty or whatever. also it sounds like you don't actuly DO as much at digi pen, its sounds like they just talk about doing it(i'm sure thats exadurateing, but you get the point) i understad at full sail they make two full length games (state of the art, not like pong...) as a class. so i would be very interested to hear some as UNBIASED as possable, opinions for students from BOTH schools, especialy digi pen, since only one of them have hit this forum. and beter yet, i don't know if such a person exists, but if someone has been to both, I'd love to hear about it. I'm not telling you to not respond on the forum or anyting, but if anyone wants to know, my email is hojojabobo@yahoo.com oh yeah, one more thing, i heard about jobs at full sail during education there, both out of school and for the school (game design related), i want to hear from anyone who has done that, and also does digi pen do that also, because I'd also like to heaar from someone who has done that. |
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PaulCesar Member since: 8/10/2002 From: Rockford, USA |
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Posted - 4/25/2004 4:19:37 AM |
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| Ok, for starters, Digipen is a more respected school in the industry if the businesses are looking for degrees. Even though fullsail squashes better, it still only fits in a 2 year degree. Digipen offers a 4 year. While both fullsail and digipen boast almost equal placement, digipen proves a higher placement in console game development groups, and imho game development programs (though i havent the proof to back up the latter claim). And P.S. a basic CS degree with a nice looking demo is more powerfull then any FullSail degree. So if you dont mind putting some work in, go for a CS or SE degree at a normal collage, and work on a demo in the time you can. Its tons cheaper, easier, and will get you the same results. I would just finish for a 4yr CS/SE degree at the college you are going to attend anyways. And Im pretty sure that your credits from your college will be no good in FullSail. Since Digipen is a little more college-like then fullsail, the credits in math and programming may transfer it bit better. Secondly, from what you told me you would definitly not be in the top of the class at fullsail. BASIC is not a very respected language in the Game Programming field for good reason. No one uses it for commercial games. BASIC is meant to be easy, and it teaches you alot of concepts that are wrong, and gives you a poor impression of serious programming. You need to pick up C/C++ as thats what you will be in need of learning. Speaking of that, alot of highschool graduates that are interested in games programming have a few years C/C++ expiriance behind their belt. |
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Anonymous Poster |
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Posted - 4/25/2004 4:31:38 AM |
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| Yea, BASIC sucks for games... |
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Aquartabla Member since: 4/25/2004 From: Lincoln, USA |
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Posted - 4/28/2004 12:56:49 AM |
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| ok, i know basic is meant to be easy, still, comparitvly i am still by very far the best in the class, so i know its not the best perspective, but at least it is some perspective.(also i have the top grade in my math class, and when i was in electronis i held the same spot throught the 3 semesters i took it, i know its a strech but its the part of the brain) and my high school does not offer a c++ course, if it did, i would have takent it. i don't think i mentioned it but i go to school in lincoln NE, and although it may be the capital, that doesent mean I'm compleatly out of the corn belt. also my school is the poorest, that doesent mean its like the school off "boys in the hood", but we get a the crapyest stuff, and right now thier laying off a bunch of teachers for next year, not that ill be there, and for this year they already cut a bunch of courses. I wouldent say ill do bad at c++, if someone takes the time to show me all the ins and outs, ill be a complete pro, ill work through the languge, not with it. but i really want your openion, and any one else's that thinks they know. what do you think would be better... 1) a 4 year computer science degree at UNL (university of nebraska lincoln) pluss a 2 year full sail degree. 2) a 4 year digi pen degree |
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ProfessorChaos Member since: 6/18/2004 From: USA |
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Posted - 10/20/2004 8:52:43 PM |
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| Hey I am 14 and looking to go to full sail and take the game design and development course, but i have a couple of questions. I will not be one of those people that will drop out because I know some c++ so I know sort of what to expect. 1. What kind of person are they looking to accept, like do they accept nearly every applicant or what kind of grades will i need? 2. What should I learn now to prepare for full sail? I know I would want to learn c++ but is there anything else? 3. After the game design and development course how quickly do you get a job and is it a good job? Thanks in advance!! |
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