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 Updated OpenGL on Vista information
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message phantom  Moderator  Member since: 12/15/2001  From: Ipswich, United Kingdom
 Posted - 3/8/2006 8:13:17 PM
I've been a bit slow posting this, so my applogise to you guys for my slowness.

Quote:

OpenGL can go through one of three paths in Windows Vista depending on how your computer is configured.

MSOGL - this is an implementation of OpenGL 1.4 that uses Direct3D under the covers to hardware accellerate the application.
Legacy ICD's - These are the ICD's that are available today for use on Windows XP. These will continue to work on Windows Vista, but will disable the DWM when they are loaded in to the process of the application that's using OpenGL. The reason for this is that Legacy ICD's operate directly on the GPU without going through Windows at all, and we have no way of redirecting application's output in a stable, predictable manner.
Windows Vista ICD's - this is a new path for 3rd party ICD's introduced for Windows Vista that will work in a way that is compatible with desktop composition. Essentially allowing direct access to the GPU for hardware accellaration, but then having the final surface that appears to be the front buffer to the application actually be a shared surface that gets composed by the DWM

source

Basically, OpenGL on Vista is indeed 'no problem' once the IHVs get their Vista ICDs into effect and working. I suspect both NV and ATI will make this a high priority.

The important point is the bit in bold, this means that OpenGL and the Aeroglass window manager will work nicely side by side, meaning nice alpha blended windows and that all the scare mongering on the OpenGL website by various users is indeed FUD.

Now, lets put an end to the OpenGL on Vista is going to be a problem rumours can we?

[Edited by - phantom on March 11, 2006 10:55:07 AM]
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message bpoint    Member since: 7/10/2005  From: Okinawa, Japan
 Posted - 3/8/2006 8:25:22 PM
Hooray! There _is_ alot of FUD going around, and it's good to hear how it will really be implemented.

Thanks for the link, phantom.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message Promit  Moderator - Graphics Programming and Theory  Member since: 7/29/2001  From: Baltimore, MD, United States
 Posted - 3/8/2006 8:34:20 PM
Not at all surprising. The alarmist bullshit on OpenGL.org was, well, just that.

I'm curious though, why do they mention legacy ICDs? My understanding was that after the NT rewrite and the move the LDDM, old drivers were completely broken, which would mean that legacy ICDs would be broken as well.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message Daaark    Member since: 8/1/2001  From: Ottawa, On, Canada
 Posted - 3/8/2006 8:35:37 PM
Good to know. Best news I've read in a long time. I was wondering if I was going to have to switch over to Direct3D eventually.

-VD, OpenGL for life.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message phantom  Moderator  Member since: 12/15/2001  From: Ipswich, United Kingdom
 Posted - 3/8/2006 8:40:07 PM
Quote:
Original post by Promit
I'm curious though, why do they mention legacy ICDs? My understanding was that after the NT rewrite and the move the LDDM, old drivers were completely broken, which would mean that legacy ICDs would be broken as well.


I guess its to allow for old hardware which wont get an update to work, to allow people to move over if they want on it?

I'm sure someone somewhere did a cost-benifit anaylsis and it came up as a good idea..
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message hplus0603  Moderator - Multiplayer and Network Programming  Member since: 6/3/2003
 Posted - 3/8/2006 8:55:52 PM
If that's true, then that's good news! And, considering the "alarmist bullsh!t," perhaps the fact that some highly visible players made vocal noises about the previous plan is one reason we're getting the good news? It's hard to know.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message phantom  Moderator  Member since: 12/15/2001  From: Ipswich, United Kingdom
 Posted - 3/8/2006 9:12:14 PM
well, the source looks pretty legit so I'd say it was true and I suspect we are getting the information now because this is when they planned to say it, once things had been nailed down and information made avaible to IHV.. the OpenGL thread died out ages ago really to little or not effect, and the Vista ICD must have been 'in the works' for a while now, as it doesnt seem to be something you can just 'hack in' in a few months..

Looks like the ball is very much in the IHVs court now, assuming MS have given them all the relivent details.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message Promit  Moderator - Graphics Programming and Theory  Member since: 7/29/2001  From: Baltimore, MD, United States
 Posted - 3/9/2006 12:00:50 AM
Actually, now that I think of it, one of the WinHEC presentations said that XPDDM would still be there for back-compat. Completely forgot about that.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message RenderTarget    Member since: 6/18/2003  From: Shoreline, WA, United States
 Posted - 3/9/2006 12:11:49 AM
Quote:
Original post by Promit
Actually, now that I think of it, one of the WinHEC presentations said that XPDDM would still be there for back-compat. Completely forgot about that.


Yeah. MS isn't about to destroy support for all the old devices that users have, even if the hardware reqs for Vista are higher. Back-compat is one of their locks.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message N64Marin    Member since: 12/16/2004
 Posted - 3/14/2006 5:32:39 AM
I'm so happy hearing this. I love OpenGL and don't want to see Graphics API market been dominated by M$.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message md_lasalle    Member since: 3/15/2004  From: Canada
 Posted - 3/23/2006 2:11:40 PM
If you don't want to see Microsoft getting the big part of the market....please stop using their products...

When you choose your OS, it's like voting for something, same thing as buying at Walmart instead of encouraging the small local business.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message Promit  Moderator - Graphics Programming and Theory  Member since: 7/29/2001  From: Baltimore, MD, United States
 Posted - 3/23/2006 2:12:30 PM
Quote:
Original post by md_lasalle
When you choose your OS, it's like voting for something, same thing as buying at Walmart instead of encouraging the small local business.
Why bother encouraging the small local business if it give you second rate products, or lousy service?
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message md_lasalle    Member since: 3/15/2004  From: Canada
 Posted - 3/23/2006 2:18:12 PM
Quote:
Original post by Promit
Quote:
Original post by md_lasalle
When you choose your OS, it's like voting for something, same thing as buying at Walmart instead of encouraging the small local business.
Why bother encouraging the small local business if it give you second rate products, or lousy service?


True, but in most cases, the local market, since it's smaller will be able to give a better service, and for the product quality it's really case specific.

If I continu with the Walmart exemple, these products are crappy AND the service is really poor.
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Reply Quoting This MessageEdit Message N64Marin    Member since: 12/16/2004
 Posted - 3/24/2006 9:09:07 AM
Good news, we can continue using OpenGL as a first class graphics API.
So, M$ can't do anything, isn't it.
By the way, I hate Direct3D.
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