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Add Forum to Favorites | Send Topic To a Friend | View Forum FAQ | Track this topic Page: 1 2 »» |
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| Creating interesting style: Chitin armour? |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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 Posted - 8/29/2008 11:02:43 PM |
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| Imagine a small RPG world, set in a swampy area. There is one main location with surrounding wild areas. In this place there are all sorts of swamp creatures, many of which are giant insects. My question is this: What do you guys think of having armour be made of chitin (the hard shells of insects)? To make new armour the player would have to go hunt some giant bugs and collect the raw material which would then be shaped and such into the armour. Would this add new interesting aspects to the game, style-wise? Or would it be no more interesting than interesting looking metal armour? |
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Tom Sloper Moderator Member since: 1/20/2006 From: Los Angeles, CA, United States |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 1:27:48 AM |
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| Chitin armor is perfectly fine, depending on what kinds of weapons the enemy has. Chitin wouldn't be good protection if the enemy has giant magnifying lenses, for instance, or steel weapons, or lead bullets. -- Tom Sloper Sloperama Productions Making games fun and getting them done. www.sloperama.com Instructor in games, University of Southern California http://itp.usc.edu/ Please don't use this site's PM feature to contact me. Thanks! |
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sunandshadow Moderator - Writing for Games Member since: 4/23/2000 From: Pittsburgh, PA, United States |
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 Posted - 8/30/2008 2:05:02 AM |
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| Sounds cool to me. I'm a fan of crafting in general, and crafting that fits logically in the world while still having a unique fantasy or science fictiony feel, and being visually pretty on top of that, is excellent. |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 9:38:46 AM |
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| I figure I can take artistic license and say the chitin armour is hardened with resins and such to withstand steel weapons, the real problem is that chitin doesn't make an edged weapon very well no matter how you sell it. So if I added in steel somehow then I have edged weapons but I need to figure out why there might be steel swords but chitin armour. This is mainly why I ask if chitin is an interesting inclusion in the first place. If it isn't then I might as well go with all steel, if it isn't then I still have some thinking. So, if the armour is chitin, what do you make a sword from? If I allow a small iron works in my swamp (there is a logical basis for ore supply, wiki "bog ore") then why might there still be chitin armour? |
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cih Member since: 8/11/2008 From: Lyon |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 11:10:40 AM |
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| Good idea JasRonq. Why not remove metal entirely? Make ropes and nets from liana, carve spears and shields from wood, construct chitin and bone cuiraces from the carcasses of giant insects, or of other humans for that matter. We are human, right? As the offensive value of weapons decreases, the protective value of armor increases. I think you should stay on that track, it's a great idea. |
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Tom Sloper Moderator Member since: 1/20/2006 From: Los Angeles, CA, United States |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 12:12:54 PM |
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Quote: Thorns. Obsidian. -- Tom Sloper Sloperama Productions Making games fun and getting them done. www.sloperama.com Instructor in games, University of Southern California http://itp.usc.edu/ Please don't use this site's PM feature to contact me. Thanks! |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 1:07:39 PM |
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| While thorns and such are great for spears and arrows, they make poor swords and axes. (speaking of which, axes in a swamp might be useful in non-combative ways as well...) Obsidian is an option, but one I had initially been wary of as it places constrictions on the geography. Where in a swamp are you going to find volcanic glass?? PS. I am also now a bit hesitant to scrap metal all together. Pattern welded weaponry is beautiful. |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 2:58:56 PM |
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| Through some outside discussion I have come to realize that chitin armour could definitely withstand some hits from steel weapons. More importantly I can give the impression that they are good armour against steel. Chitin hardened with resins and structured well could take hits from short bows and jabs from swords and pikes, and hardened resins and hard studs could deflect sword blows. Also, within the game world, this would make sense as steel, while available, is not nearly as easy to find or process as chitin would be, so even if there was enough steel available to make armour from, it would still be advantageous to build from other materials that could work. |
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cih Member since: 8/11/2008 From: Lyon |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 3:58:05 PM |
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Your idea inspired this : [Edited by - cih on August 31, 2008 10:58:40 AM] |
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sunandshadow Moderator - Writing for Games Member since: 4/23/2000 From: Pittsburgh, PA, United States |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 5:05:32 PM |
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| Have to us html here, specifically you want an img src tag. |
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Tangireon Member since: 5/19/2008 From: Duluth, GA, United States |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 9:19:32 PM |
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Quote: Well, why won't you look at the other parts of those same giant insects that you are making your armor from? Their claws (lobster-like)? Their stingers (bee-like), etc? Like the armor, I could imagine a sword made from a claw or spear made from a stinger won't look very conventional, but just imagine if you could take either the bottom or top pincer off from a whole claw that is very elongated, you could have something that looks like a curved katana-like blade with an array of thorns protruding from one side of that blade. For the stinger-spear, you could have the poison-sacks hanging from sides of the spear head or within the shaft of the spear, and have some sort of trigger mechanism to release the poison whenever you make a thrust through armor. |
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Daaark Member since: 8/1/2001 From: Ottawa, On, Canada |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 9:44:02 PM |
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Quote:It's been done before, so it's nothing new. I think in Morrowwind it might have been one of the best armors for stealthy characters, since it didn't weight anything (until you find the glass stuff). You could also get chitin weapons. Quote: |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 8/30/2008 11:43:21 PM |
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| Indeed it has been done before, that is where I am pulling the idea from, though visually mine would look very different. Right now I think I *may* have light armour and heavy armour with light being chitin and heavy being chitin with metal plates. but I may just blend a little metal into the chitin armour. I may add in obsidian as well. So many options. What would you guys think if you found many different materials in use for similar purposes. ie, steel and obsidian both as blades and axes and both of those plus other hard materials as arrow and spear tips? Would it seem odd that there was such variance? |
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cj270608 Member since: 6/4/2008 From: Huddersfield |
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Posted - 8/31/2008 5:51:55 AM |
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| Here's a thought: if the armour is made from chitin, what about accessories/clothing? (e.g. gauntlets/gloves, tunics, boots, wristbands) |
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LorenzoGatti Member since: 11/25/2005 From: Parma, Italy |
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Posted - 8/31/2008 9:58:11 AM |
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| Instead of plain chitin, your fantasy giant arthropods could process with biological means and include in their exoskeleton and their pointy appendages a number of stronger materials like carbon nanotubes, metal crystals, various types of ceramics, etc. |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 8/31/2008 2:04:45 PM |
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| oh.. well thats a cool idea. Makes me wonder why I didn't think of that. No need for bog ore collecting and the smelting etc if the bugs actually have metal in them. It is a fantasy world after all. I'll have to think on that one. @cih: I meant to say this in my last post but got distracted. I think that is the coolest thing that I inspired some ones art. I really like the picture, you should keep going with it and refine it. It definitely gives a cool mood that I will remember when I am working on visuals for my game. I think I will add the pic to my folder of reference images I have been building for later. Thank you for sharing it. |
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evolutional Moderator - Alternative Game Libraries Member since: 1/25/2002 From: Leeds, United Kingdom |
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 Posted - 8/31/2008 5:20:49 PM |
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Quote: nice |
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MSW Member since: 10/22/2000 |
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Posted - 9/1/2008 1:27:23 AM |
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| I recall a old fantasy manga with a simular incect basied theme. Some insects were breed in captivity and warriors would mentaly link up with them by shareing blood. There were fairly large dragonfly like insects that would attach to the backs of warriors allowing them to fly, same sort of thing with giant spiders. And the warriors would use the molted cast off shells for armor. I don't recall the name, but it had some interesting ideas. |
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yapposai Member since: 5/31/2004 From: Hachioji, Japan |
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Posted - 9/1/2008 1:46:13 AM |
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| How about adding sizes to the armor since you are using insect parts? To get a helmet for your scrawny mage you have to kill little ants while the bigger barbarian has to kill the larger variety. Make each insect yield different sizes of raw materials ex: Large ant -> 2 kneecaps (which can be converted into a small shield for a dwarf or a helmet for a ogre) 1 domehead (shield for a human or helmet for an ogre) 2 pincers (makes 1 sword or 2 knives) If the player can't use the pieces as is, he can take them to a blacksmith to alter the pieces to a more usable piece. Altering may lower the durability of the piece so it might be better to hunt for the creature with the proper size rather than kill and harvest everything. |
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yapposai Member since: 5/31/2004 From: Hachioji, Japan |
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Posted - 9/1/2008 2:00:53 AM |
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| getting pieces from body parts may also introduce newer tactics to the combat since if you want the ant's kneecaps you have to avoid hitting the legs or you might damage the kneecaps. This could produce different ways of killing the insects depending on what part you want or even specialized equipment for harvesting different body parts efficiently/without damaging the part. |
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MSW Member since: 10/22/2000 |
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Posted - 9/1/2008 10:41:59 AM |
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Quote: Why would edged weapons be important anyway? Real insects don't need them when they fight each other. And if the PCs are to hunt the insects it would seem that it would require some specific tactical strikes against weak points to take a big bug down, rather than chopping and hacking away at it. But if edged weapons are still important. Then take a walk through a corn field on a hot dry afternoon. The leaves on corn can slice you to ribbins if you arn't carefull! If you could use resins to help with the chitin armor, why not use the same to harden dried plant leaves, turning them into swords and knives? Sure they won't be as strong as steel...but you shouldn't be useing a lot of edged weapons anyway. Its not like the human race had to develop axes and swords inorder to hunt giant mastodons ... we took them down with simple spears and pack hunting tactics. |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 9/1/2008 11:25:49 AM |
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| Well, edged weapons are important for a few reason. First, though this topic is centered around these insects and their chitin, the game is not. In the game they are as important as the trees and the variety of mushrooms growing at there base. They have ingame uses, they are part of the environment and style, but they are not the point of the game. Second, axes are still needed to fell trees and hue them. Other carpentry tools would be needed as well. Knives are needed in cooking and skinning non-insect animals. Swords are still useful in interpersonal combat. Third, and one of the biggest, swords are fun weapons. Telling players they can only use spears and bow & arrow because they are in the swamp may seem logical enough, but id earn for a sword and I feel as the designer I have an obligation to allow the player to enjoy the game in the face of realism. Ergo, I find a way to add in the classic fun edged weapons people expect, then add in new things based on the culture to add flavour. It also seems there is a large array of ways that I could create hard, sharp edges using the resins, shells, alternate biology, etc. |
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Tangireon Member since: 5/19/2008 From: Duluth, GA, United States |
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Posted - 9/1/2008 11:43:04 PM |
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| If your game has magic, then I'd imagine that in places like swamps, steppes, and other less resource-plentiful places, mages/wizards/sorcerers would have important roles to play not only on the battlefield, temples, or laboratories, but also in the extracting of resources. Again, this depends on how your magic works in your game (if you are using any at all). No axes? Get a mage to cast a spell to fell a couple of trees for you, or enchant a blade of swamp grass into a hardened edge like mentioned before. No swords? Get a mage to summon a magic broadsword for you. Again, it entirely depends on how you want your magic to work in your game/setting. There is also the issue of trade, which depends on how interconnected your cultures are in your setting. If there are intercultural exchanges in your setting, I'd imagine that iron, steel, or etc broadswords can be made plentiful in a swamp civilization as long as that civilization is exporting one of its own native goods out in exchange (such as the chitin armour plates) . Iron, steel, and etc can also be acquired by the direct opposite mentality of trade, which is by raiding caravans. Your swamp culture might employ bannerless bandits and pirates to raid on caravans to supply their civilization with iron and steel. Metal to a swamp civilization can easily be the desert civilization's water, and the novel Dune comes into mind as an example of how a culture can cope with such unique environments. [Edited by - Tangireon on April 17, 2009 11:43:57 AM] |
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JasRonq Member since: 9/2/2007 From: London, Canada |
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Posted - 9/2/2008 11:24:02 AM |
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| Some interesting ideas on how to treat the resources there. I'll have to think more on the role I am giving magic in all this. |
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cih Member since: 8/11/2008 From: Lyon |
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Posted - 9/3/2008 6:47:59 PM |
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Quote: Thank you for inspiring it. :) |
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