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#ActualHodgman

Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:21 AM

When you say beginner, looks like you talking about a beginner programmer, but to me, and correct me if Im wrong, you can master C#/java/whatever, but the only way to became a "no beginner" in C++, is programming in C++... do you agree with this sentence?
I mean, c# and java will teach you OOP much faster than C++ in my opinion, but the only way to learn the stuff that makes C++ powerfull(the ones you mention as being computer-science expert skills), is coding on C++.. Since other languages abstract out all of that stuff..

As I mentioned above, C# has actually added lots of the 'dangerous' C++ features, like raw pointers, and low-level performance tuning features, like explicit data layouts. So if you "fully master" every possibly usage of C#, then those skills will all transfer over to C++.
However, yes, C++ has lots of quirks of it's own that you still have to learn, like the rule of three, and it has it's own idioms such as RAII, which doesn't appear in many other languages.
So if you're comfortable with your computer-science and computer-architecture knowledge (which is theory that doesn't depend on any language) and you've mastered some other languages, you will find C++ much easier to learn than a complete beginner, but nonetheless you will still have plenty of new material to learn.

When I started programming in C# in the beginning of this year I realized how ridiculous hard C++ is, ive been programming only in C++ since I started to learn programming, the difference in productivity is scary.

Indeed, they don't call it a "productivity language" for nothing.
So, if you're a beginner programmer, it would be wise to start with a language that lets you focus on programming, rather than also having to focus on language-specific quirks and difficulties (which C++ has plenty of).

#1Hodgman

Posted 02 August 2012 - 08:10 AM

When you say beginner, looks like you talking about a beginner programmer, but to me, and correct me if Im wrong, you can master C#/java/whatever, but the only way to became a "no beginner" in C++, is programming in C++... do you agree with this sentence?
I mean, c# and java will teach you OOP much faster than C++ in my opinion, but the only way to learn the stuff that makes C++ powerfull(the ones you mention as being computer-science expert skills), is coding on C++.. Since other languages abstract out all of that stuff..

As I mentioned above, C# has actually added lots of the 'dangerous' C++ features, like raw pointers, and low-level performance tuning features, like explicit data layouts. So if you "fully master" every possibly usage of C#, then those skills will all transfer over to C++.
However, yes, C++ has lots of quirks of it's own that you still have to learn, like the rule of three, and it has it's own idioms such as RAII, which doesn't appear in many other languages.
So if you're comfortable with your computer-science and computer-architecture knowledge and you've mastered some other languages, you will find C++ much easier to learn than a complete beginner, but nonetheless you will still have plenty of new material to learn.

When I started programming in C# in the beginning of this year I realized how ridiculous hard C++ is, ive been programming only in C++ since I started to learn programming, the difference in productivity is scary.

Indeed, they don't call it a "productivity language" for nothing.
So, if you're a beginner programmer, it would be wise to start with a language that lets you focus on programming, rather than also having to focus on language-specific quirks and difficulties (which C++ has plenty of).

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