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#Actualjapro

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:12 AM

Im in Switzerland but I can still comment on some of the critique points of the Bachelor/Master thing. The problem with the bologna system is that it mostly fails at what it was designed to do and disrupts things that worked before. One of the central concepts for example is that the ECTS points should be transferrable and uniform across universities... but they aren't. If you go for a semester/year to study at a foreign university you still have to run all the stuff by your own administration and your university might "rate" the lectures you do there differently than the university you take them at does etc.. How much something is "worth" in terms of points might even be inconsistent within a university. We for example had the case that there was a "Numerics of Partial Differential Equations" lecture that was given for CSE students at the beginning and got you 10 points (which was still low given the amount of work you had to invest). Then this lecture also was added as a possibility to the CS curriculum. But because apparently 10 points would give CS students "too many points compared to their other lectures" they reduced it to 7 points, even though its still the exact same lecture and just as much work.
Then something especially the lecturers complain about is that the system requires some standards in regards to how and what can be used to asses performance. As a result some courses/lectures that worked before without an exam for example (typically this was the stuff you took out of interest an not because it was required) had to be changed and as a result got less popular/were dropped entierly.
This actually goes along with another concern which is that the point system encourages people to select lectures depending on point/work efficiency instead of interest.

But I also have to say that typically its not such a big deal in your day to day studying Posted Image its still your responsibility to not fall into the trap of chosing lectures by points and figuring out your semester at a foreign university (which usually does work out). I also never heard that someone with a Masters is valued lower than someone with some other form of Diploma (in Switzerland we don't even have that option anymore).

What I was wondering myself though is how this all aligns with the US university system. You often hear, especially from games industry people, stuff like that they don't care about Masters degrees and there is also this "4-year degree" thing people keep talking about that flat out doesn't seem to exist over here (in some european countries). It's pretty much a given here that you get a masters degree. Leaving university after getting a bachelor degree in three years is fairly exotic as far as i can tell (with the possible exception of "Fachhochschulen"). Your goal is pretty much to get a masters degree and the bachelors is just an intermediate step. In the old system the equivalent of that was not really regarded as a degree on its own i think.

#3japro

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:11 AM

Im in Switzerland but I can still comment on some of the critique points of the Bachelor/Master thing. The problem with the bologna system is that it mostly fails at what it was designed to do and disrupts things that worked before. One of the central concepts for example is that the ECTS points should be transferrable and uniform across universities... but they aren't. If you go for a semester/year to study at a foreign university you still have to run all the stuff by your own administration and your university might "rate" the lectures you do there differently than the university you take them at does etc.. How much something is "worth" in terms of points might even be inconsistent within a university. We for example had the case that there was a "Numerics of Partial Differential Equations" lecture that was given for CSE students at the beginning and got you 10 points (which was still low given the amount of work you had to invest). Then this lecture also was added as a possibility to the CS curriculum. But because apparently 10 points would give CS students "too many points compared to their other lectures" they reduced it to 7 points, even though its still the exact same lecture and just as much work.
Then something especially the lecturers complain about is that the system requires some standards in regards to how and what can be used to asses performance. As a result some courses/lectures that worked before without an exam for example (typically this was the stuff you took out of interest an not because it was required) had to be changed and as a result got less popular/were dropped entierly.
This actually goes along with another concern which is that the point system encourages people to select lectures depending on point/work efficiency instead of interest.

But I also have to say that typically its not such a big deal in your day to day studying Posted Image its still your responsibility to not fall into the trap of chosing lectures by points and figuring out your semester at a foreign university (which usually does work out). I also never heard that someone with a Masters is valued lower than someone with some other form of Diploma (in Switzerland we don't even have that option anymore).

What I was wondering myself though is how this all aligns with the US university system. You often hear especially from games industry people stuff like that they don't care about Masters degrees and there is also this "4-year degree" thing people keep talking about that flat out doesn't seem to exist over here (in some european countries). It's pretty much a given here that you get a masters degree. Leaving university after getting a bachelor degree in three years is fairly exotic as far as i can tell (with the possible exception of "Fachhochschulen"). Your goal is pretty much to get a masters degree and the bachelors is just an intermediate step. In the old system the equivalent of that was not really regarded as a degree on its own i think.

#2japro

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:09 AM

Im in Switzerland but I can still comment on some of the critique points of the Bachelor/Master thing. The problem with the bologna system is that it mostly fails at what it was designed to do and disrupts things that worked before. One of the central concepts for example is that the ECTS points should be transferrable and uniform across universities... but they aren't. If you go for a semester/year to study at a foreign university you still have to run all the stuff by your own administration and your university might "rate" the lectures you do there differently than the university you take them at does etc.. How much something is "worth" in terms of points might even be inconsistent within a university. We for example had the case that there was a "Numerics of Partial Differential Equations" lecture that was given for CSE students at the beginning and got you 10 points (which was still low given the amount of work you had to invest). Then this lecture also was added as a possibility to the CS curriculum. But because apparently 10 points would give CS students "too many points compared to their other lectures" they reduced it to 7 points, even though its still the exact same lecture and just as much work.
Then something especially the lecturers complain about is that the system requires some standards in regards to how and what can be used to asses performance. As a result some courses/lectures that worked before without an exam for example (typically this was the stuff you took out of interest an not because it was required) had to be changed and as a result got less popular/were dropped entierly.
This actually goes along with another concern which is that the point system encourages people to select lectures depending on point/work efficiency instead of interest.

But I also have to say that typically its not such a big deal in your day to day studying Posted Image its still your responsibility to not fall into the trap of chosing lectures by points and figuring out your semester at a foreign university (which usually does work out). I also never heard that someone with a Masters is valued lower than someone with some other form of Diploma (in Switzerland we don't even have that option anymore).

What I was wondering myself though is how this all aligns with the US university system. You often hear especially from games industry people stuff like that they don't care about Masters degres and there is also this "4-year degree" thing people keep talking about that flat out doesn't seem to exist over here (in some european countries). It's pretty much a given here that you get a masters degree. Leaving university after getting a bachelor degree in three years is fairly exotic as far as i can tell (with the possible exception of "Fachhochschulen"). Your goal is pretty much to get a masters degree and the bachelors is just an intermediate step. In the old system the equivalent of that was not really regarded as a degree on its own i think.

#1japro

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:08 AM

Im in Switzerland but I can still comment on some of the critique points of the Bachelor/Master thing. The problem with the bologna system is that it mostly fails at what it was designed to do and disrupts things that worked before. One of the central concepts for example is that the ECTS points should be transferrable and uniform across universities... but they aren't. If you go for a semester/year to study at a foreign university you still have to run all the stuff by your own administration and your university might "rate" the lectures you do there differently than the university you take them at does etc.. How much something is "worth" in terms of points might even be inconsistent within a university. We for example had the case that there was a "Numerics of Partial Differential Equations" lecture that was given for CSE students at the beginning and got you 10 points (which was still low given the amount of work you had to invest). Then this lecture also was added as a possibility to the CS curriculum. But because apparently 10 points would give CS students "too many points compared to their other lectures" they reduced it to 7 points, even though its still the exact same lecture and just as much work. As a result the studies still work similar to how they worked before (you have to do some mandatory lectures and have to fill a few slots with ones you can choose).
Then something especially the lecturers complain about is that the system requires some standards in regards to how and what can be used to asses performance. As a result some courses/lectures that worked before without an exam for example (typically this was the stuff you took out of interest an not because it was required) had to be changed and as a result got less popular/were dropped entierly.
This actually goes along with another concern which is that the point system encourages people to select lectures depending on point/work efficiency instead of interest.

But I also have to say that typically its not such a big deal in your day to day studying :D its still your responsibility to not fall into the trap of chosing lectures by points and figuring out your semester at a foreign university (which usually does work out). I also never heard that someone with a Masters is valued lower than someone with some other form of Diploma (in Switzerland we don't even have that option anymore).

What I was wondering myself though is how this all aligns with the US university system. You often hear especially from games industry people stuff like that they don't care about Masters degres and there is also this "4-year degree" thing people keep talking about that flat out doesn't seem to exist over here (in some european countries). It's pretty much a given here that you get a masters degree. Leaving university after getting a bachelor degree in three years is fairly exotic as far as i can tell (with the possible exception of "Fachhochschulen"). Your goal is pretty much to get a masters degree and the bachelors is just an intermediate step. In the old system the equivalent of that was not really regarded as a degree on its own i think.

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