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#ActualShaquil

Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

I can power it through my micro USB phone cable just fine... Besides, in USB 2.0 a unit can draw 500 mA of power just fine, at least as specified by USB 2.0 (and assuming Wikipedia isn't lying). If you just use a standard USB 2.0 connection you're fine, and I'd say most people have such a connection readily available.

 

I don't know what "most people" you're talking about. Are you talking about "most people who would have a need for the Pi" or are you talking about "most people" who would be interested in technology? This plays into another of the serious problems with the message of the foundation. Who is the Pi for? From the FAQ: "We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming." All over the world? Like in places where kids don't have a bunch of HDMI cables, micro USB cables and SD cards just laying around? Or even in western countries where there are, believe it or not, still people who somehow don't have those things? Worst of all, people try to pretend that stuff is easy at hand. Yeah, I guess when you live in a nice area where there's a best buy and a radio shack and another hardware store around the block. Funny, but turns out there are some places on earth that aren't like that either. I just don't like the "$35 computer" thing, when you know it costs more than $35 to use this thing.

Altogether that's around $70 for this "computer" that's completely painful to use from the start.

I'm not sure how to say this, but if you're expecting something fancy for $70, it's not gonna happen.

 

I think people get their hopes up too high for the Pi. It wasn't ever meant to be a "here's a pretty tutorial on how to get into Linux and computer stuff;" it's more of a "here's a cheap little thing you can tinker the heck out of." Additionally, as has been mentioned, a lot of the beginners that are targeted are beginners in a classroom, with an instructor to guide them. I understand it may not have been what you expected (and maybe it was marketed to you in a less-than-ideal way), which is unfortunate.

 

I don't know what doubts I'd have about the Pi. What exactly are you doubting? Frustrations I can understand, but I'm not sure about doubts.

 

From the FAQ: "We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming." From the Raspberry Pi User Guide: "A big kick up the backside came a few years ago, when we were moving quite slowly on the Raspberry Pi project. ... I was talking to a neighbour's nephew about the subjects he was taking for his GCSE. ... computer games were a passion for him, but his schooling had skirted around any programming. This is the sort of situation I want to see the back of, where potential enthusiasm is squandered to no purpose."

 

So wait, this is for kids who are enthusiastic about learning things like programming, hardware, and linux? Where are the detailed tutorials? Where's the very patient, helpful community? I think they've just gotten themselves into something they didn't understand fully. If you want to help kids get into hardware and understanding computers under all the GUI's and abstractions, then you've got a road ahead of you. Especially if most of your supported operating systems are linux-based. You're going to have to provide something the Linux/Unix community still hasn't done: A welcoming, down-to-earth community for kids and beginners, the two interests groups most likely to completely give up and go somewhere else when things get tougher than they are fun.

 

At the moment, we're talking about people who don't even know what "pwd" does, and they're asking questions like "How can I get audio over HDMI?" and being told "post your edid dump." Oh, is that all? Thanks. You think my little sister is going to put down her kindle fire to enjoy the subtle pleasantries of googling for hours to solve a problem she doesn't understand? The idea is great, but the execution is not. This isn't the way to get kids or beginners into computing.


#1Shaquil

Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:42 PM

The $35 dollar price point was a lie, much like the price of nearly any small/"portable" piece of hardware.

I thought they were pretty clear about what the $35 gives you.

Then there's the micro USB power supply which requires 5v at about 500mah. I dunno what makes anyone think that a charger like that would be laying around. I have a micro USB phone charger, but it maxes at 250mah. So that was another $10.

Really? I can power it through my micro USB phone cable just fine... Besides, in USB 2.0 a unit can draw 500 mA of power just fine, at least as specified by USB 2.0 (and assuming Wikipedia isn't lying). If you just use a standard USB 2.0 connection you're fine, and I'd say most people have such a connection readily available.

 

I don't know what "most people" you're talking about. Are you talking about "most people who would have a need for the Pi" or are you talking about "most people" who would be interested in technology? This plays into another of the serious problems with the message of the foundation. Who is the Pi for? From the FAQ: "We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming." All over the world? Like in places where kids don't have a bunch of HDMI cables, micro USB cables and SD cards just laying around? Or even in western countries where there are, believe it or not, still people who somehow don't have those things? Worst of all, people try to pretend that stuff is easy at hand. Yeah, I guess when you live in a nice area where there's a best buy and a radio shack and another hardware store around the block. Funny, but turns out there are some places on earth that aren't like that either. I just don't like the "$35 computer" thing, when you know it costs more than $35 to use this thing.

 

Then there's the SD card, which ranges between 10 and 30 dollars. We'll call it $15 to be fair.

I've got spare SD cards laying around. Sure, you may not, but many people do, and if you don't you can get a dirt cheap 4GB one for under $10.

 

Oh great. 4 whole gigabytes...

 

Altogether that's around $70 for this "computer" that's completely painful to use from the start.

I'm not sure how to say this, but if you're expecting something fancy for $70, it's not gonna happen.

 

I think people get their hopes up too high for the Pi. It wasn't ever meant to be a "here's a pretty tutorial on how to get into Linux and computer stuff;" it's more of a "here's a cheap little thing you can tinker the heck out of." Additionally, as has been mentioned, a lot of the beginners that are targeted are beginners in a classroom, with an instructor to guide them. I understand it may not have been what you expected (and maybe it was marketed to you in a less-than-ideal way), which is unfortunate.

 

I don't know what doubts I'd have about the Pi. What exactly are you doubting? Frustrations I can understand, but I'm not sure about doubts.

 

From the FAQ: "We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming." From the Raspberry Pi User Guide: "A big kick up the backside came a few years ago, when we were moving quite slowly on the Raspberry Pi project. ... I was talking to a neighbour's nephew about the subjects he was taking for his GCSE. ... computer games were a passion for him, but his schooling had skirted around any programming. This is the sort of situation I want to see the back of, where potential enthusiasm is squandered to no purpose."

 

So wait, this is for kids who are enthusiastic about learning things like programming, hardware, and linux? Where are the detailed tutorials? Where's the very patient, helpful community? I think they've just gotten themselves into something they didn't understand fully. If you want to help kids get into hardware and understanding computers under all the GUI's and abstractions, then you've got a road ahead of you. Especially if most of your supported operating systems are linux-based. You're going to have to provide something the Linux/Unix community still hasn't done: A welcoming, down-to-earth community for kids and beginners, the two interests groups most likely to completely give up and go somewhere else when things get tougher than they are fun.

 

At the moment, we're talking about people who don't even know what "pwd" does, and they're asking questions like "How can I get audio over HDMI?" and being told "post your edid dump." Oh, is that all? Thanks. You think my little sister is going to put down her kindle fire to enjoy the subtle pleasantries of googling for hours to solve a problem she doesn't understand? The idea is great, but the execution is not. This isn't the way to get kids or beginners into computing.


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