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#ActualNorman Barrows

Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:51 AM


about the only other solution would be to slow the simulation down. like a governor driven by frame time. max speed sim can run at is a function of frame time. that would fix it, i think.


Sure, and this is how many games used to play, but:
  • It's useless for multiplayer, since everybody has to be running the simulation at the same speed
  • Who decides when the sim should start to slow down? I used to enjoy playing Doom at 15fps, and wouldn't have enjoyed it if you'd made it run at half-speed in order to give me the same reaction times as a 30Hz game.
I don't think this really works because acceptable reaction times and latency are subjective.


well, i'm primarily thinking single player here. the problem is protracted enough without adding multiplayer sync and lag to the equation. but you're right, bullet time probably wouldn't work well for multiplayer. in the case of multiplayer, there are likely sufficient temporary inaccuracies from lack of lockstep sync that trying to fix frame independant movement and long frame times is probably overkill.

but for single player, actually, it could be optional. either drop frames or go bullet time, player's choice. and the player could configure the FPS at which it started to slide into bullet time.

thats would allow them to tailor the "low end" behavior to their liking, while retaining all the "high end" performance advantages of decoupling the render, simulate, and getinput stages, IE the 3 basic parts of a game loop: draw, get input, move everything.

so you'd decouple render, getinput, and simulate. if bullet time slowdown was enabled, when render slows down to the user specified speed (FPS), you re-couple them (well, maybe just render and simulate). when render speeds back up, you gradually decouple them again.

#3Norman Barrows

Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:51 AM


about the only other solution would be to slow the simulation down. like a governor driven by frame time. max speed sim can run at is a function of frame time. that would fix it, i think.


Sure, and this is how many games used to play, but:
  • It's useless for multiplayer, since everybody has to be running the simulation at the same speed
  • Who decides when the sim should start to slow down? I used to enjoy playing Doom at 15fps, and wouldn't have enjoyed it if you'd made it run at half-speed in order to give me the same reaction times as a 30Hz game.
I don't think this really works because acceptable reaction times and latency are subjective.


well, i'm primarily thinking single player here. the problem is protracted enough without adding multiplayer sync and lag to the equation. but you're right, bullet time probably wouldn't work well for multiplayer. in the case of multiplayer, there are likely sufficient temporary inaccuracies from lack of lockstep sync that trying to fix frame independant movement and long frame times is probably overkill.

but for single player, actually, it could be optional. either drop frames or go bullet time, player's choice. and the player could configure the FPS at which it started to slide into bullet time.

thats would allow them to tailor the "low end" behavior to their liking, while retaining all the "high end" performance advantages of decoupling the render, simulate, and getinput stages, IE the 3 basic parts of a game loop: draw, get input, move everything.

so you'd decouple render, getinput, and simulate. if bullet time slowdown was enabled, when render slows down to the user specified speed (FPS), you re-couple them (well, maybe just render and simulate). when render speeds back up, you gradually decouple them again.

#2Norman Barrows

Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:49 AM


about the only other solution would be to slow the simulation down. like a governor driven by frame time. max speed sim can run at is a function of frame time. that would fix it, i think.


Sure, and this is how many games used to play, but:
  • It's useless for multiplayer, since everybody has to be running the simulation at the same speed
  • Who decides when the sim should start to slow down? I used to enjoy playing Doom at 15fps, and wouldn't have enjoyed it if you'd made it run at half-speed in order to give me the same reaction times as a 30Hz game.
I don't think this really works because acceptable reaction times and latency are subjective.


well, i'm primarily thinking single player here. the problem is protracted enough without adding multiplayer sync and lag to the equation. but you're right, bullet time probably wouldn't work well for multiplayer. in the case of multiplayer, there are likely sufficient temporary inaccuracies from lack of lockstep sync that trying to fix frame independant movement and long frame times is probably overkill.

but for single player, actually, it could be optional. either drop frames or go bullet time, player's choice. and the player could configure the FPS at which it started to slide into bullet time.

thats would allow them to tailor the "low end" behavior to their liking, while retaining all the "high end" performance advantages of decoupling the render, simulate, and getinput stages, IE the 3 basic parts of a game loop: draw, get input, move everything.

so you'd decouple render, getinput, and simulate. if bullet time slowdown was enabled, when render slows down to the user specified speed (FPS), you re-couple them (well, maybe just render and simulate). when render speeds back up, you gradually decouple them again.

#1Norman Barrows

Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:37 AM

about the only other solution would be to slow the simulation down. like a governor driven by frame time. max speed sim can run at is a function of frame time. that would fix it, i think.

 

Sure, and this is how many games used to play, but:

  1. It's useless for multiplayer, since everybody has to be running the simulation at the same speed
  2. Who decides when the sim should start to slow down? I used to enjoy playing Doom at 15fps, and wouldn't have enjoyed it if you'd made it run at half-speed in order to give me the same reaction times as a 30Hz game.

I don't think this really works because acceptable reaction times and latency are subjective.

 

 

well, i'm primarily thinking single player here. the problem is protracted enough without adding multiplayer sync and lag to the equation. but you're right, bullet time probably wouldn't work well for multiplayer. in the case of multiplayer, there are likely sufficient temporary inaccuracies from lack of lockstep sync that trying to fix frame independant movement and long frame times is probably overkill.

 

but for single player, actually, it could be optional. either drop frames or go bullet time, player's choice. and the player could configure the FPS at which it started to slide into bullet time.

 

thats would allow them to tailor the "low end" behavior to their liking, while retaining all the "high end" performance advantages of decoupling the render, simulate, and getinput stages, IE the 3 basic parts of a game loop: draw, get input, move  everything. 


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