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The Western: FPS? RPG? RTS?


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#61 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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Posted 13 December 2002 - 04:22 PM

I would be very interested in, as a start, the 3d modeling of props and the development of software for realtime rendering of those props, including the development of spec sheets for those props.

Props that fascinate me the most at this point are horses, guns, and gambling equipment.

If some of you would like to tackle the modeling of these props, I''ve got lots of good reference images (better than the ones posted so far). I would like to work on the rendering code myself.

I''m interested in detail and authenticity. I want high polygon count models. Polygons can be reduced through LOD techniques procedurally. I would rather start with high detail and high polygon counts and remove detail progressively, than start with low detail and polygon counts with no ability to add polygonal resoltion later without remodeling the objects.

Sponsor:

#62 ktuluorion   Members   -  Reputation: 392

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 05:45 AM

quote:
Original post by bishop_pass
I would be very interested in, as a start, the 3d modeling of props and the development of software for realtime rendering of those props, including the development of spec sheets for those props.

Props that fascinate me the most at this point are horses, guns, and gambling equipment.

If some of you would like to tackle the modeling of these props, I''ve got lots of good reference images (better than the ones posted so far). I would like to work on the rendering code myself.

I''m interested in detail and authenticity. I want high polygon count models. Polygons can be reduced through LOD techniques procedurally. I would rather start with high detail and high polygon counts and remove detail progressively, than start with low detail and polygon counts with no ability to add polygonal resoltion later without remodeling the objects.


I started on a 3d version of the colt. Seems to be progressing decently so far. I''ll probably need some better quality images for the textures, however, as the jpeg is too pixelated.

Will post soon with how it is coming along. Unfortunately, like you said, it is pretty high polygon count. VERY high. Simplification is a must.

#63 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 09:14 AM


Classic Peacemaker .45 with a 7 1/2-inch barrel.

http://www.nfsrsoftware.lchost.com/west/peace1.jpg>



#64 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 09:16 AM


Short-barrel Peacemaker .45 with a 4 3/4-inch barrel.

http://www.nfsrsoftware.lchost.com/west/peace2.jpg>


#65 Fallen_soul   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 03:09 PM

I have read many of the posts on this topic, and am very intirested. If you are going to push this through, I would like to help. My programming skills are next to none, as is my 3d modeling, but i can help with Character, and setting development, if you want it (both of which i feel are just as important as the graphics). Let me know if you want my help.

#66 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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Posted 14 December 2002 - 05:04 PM

Ok, as far as I can tell, the following people have expressed an interest in actually working on this project/a project like this:

  • smiley4
  • Polish
  • ktuluorion
  • Fallen_soul

    I listed a set of roles earlier in this thread that would need to be fulfilled, minimally, for such a project (my vision of the project, anyway). Those who are interested, please state exactly which roles you would like to contribute to.

  • #67 ktuluorion   Members   -  Reputation: 392

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    Posted 14 December 2002 - 06:41 PM

    3D Modeler


    General systems programmer


    I would be glad to contribute to both of these. I will be honest, I am not the best 3d modeler, but surely not the worst. I''m sure I could help out in that aspect.

    My primary interest would be helping with programming, of course.

    Also, i''m curious, is this intended to be an MMORPG or something else? It seems like it could lend itself well to almost any style.


    Let me know what I can get working on. I''ve been working a bit on 3d modelling a colt revolver, but its slow going, and I don''t have too much time for the next week because I am dealing with finals, so studying is taking the priority.

    After that, i''ll have plenty of time!



    #68 ktuluorion   Members   -  Reputation: 392

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    Posted 14 December 2002 - 06:42 PM

    Perhaps we should set up some type of forum or website for this project. I have webspace at piebert.netfirms.com, and would be glad to allocate some space for this.

    #69 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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    Posted 14 December 2002 - 06:47 PM

    quote:
    Original post by ktuluorion
    Perhaps we should set up some type of forum or website for this project. I have webspace at piebert.netfirms.com, and would be glad to allocate some space for this.

    Can you set up a forum for us? Something with a layout sort of like the GameDev forums? I know there are free forum sites to set up private forums - I just don''t know which one to use or what ones are available.



    #70 Ganryu   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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    Posted 15 December 2002 - 01:25 AM

    I''ve always been interested in interior/exterior wild-west house design, and i''m studying art. I''m kinda interested in working with this... Drawing/design mainly, i suck at 3d.

    I have a few good reference books here at home as well

    #71 ktuluorion   Members   -  Reputation: 392

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    Posted 15 December 2002 - 04:26 AM

    quote:
    Original post by bishop_pass
    [quote]Original post by ktuluorion
    Perhaps we should set up some type of forum or website for this project. I have webspace at piebert.netfirms.com, and would be glad to allocate some space for this.

    Can you set up a forum for us? Something with a layout sort of like the GameDev forums? I know there are free forum sites to set up private forums - I just don''t know which one to use or what ones are available.



    Will surely look into it. I''ll try to have something up tonight.

    #72 Run_The_Shadows   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 634

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    Posted 15 December 2002 - 05:12 AM

    bishop:
    Can't say I'm good for much right now outside design work, but I'm most handy as a critic and a problem-spotter/solver. Feed me a design document if/when you get one handy and I can get back to you relatively quickly on what I spot as points of concern.
    Nice job with the Wyoming town listing, btw.

    -Ryan "Run_The_Shadows"
    -Run_The_Shadows@excite.com
    -The Navidson Record! The best film you'll never see!

    [edited by - Run_The_Shadows on December 15, 2002 12:13:07 PM]

    #73 Fallen_soul   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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    Posted 15 December 2002 - 02:36 PM

    I''m intirested in design for any of the aspects. Possibly char development depending on where you want to take the game.

    Friends may come and go.....
    but enemies accumulate

    #74 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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    Posted 15 December 2002 - 03:48 PM

    quote:
    Original post by ktuluorion
    Will surely look into it. I''ll try to have something up tonight.

    Any luck with getting somethign set up?



    #75 ktuluorion   Members   -  Reputation: 392

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    Posted 15 December 2002 - 04:52 PM

    quote:
    Original post by bishop_pass
    [quote]Original post by ktuluorion
    Will surely look into it. I''ll try to have something up tonight.

    Any luck with getting somethign set up?



    I tried fiddling with Frontpage and did some default thing, but it is ugly as hell and no good. I''m gonna have to look for another or try to fix this up so it works...

    Basically I just ran out of time because I have a final tomorrow morning and had to study

    YOu can see what I did on the webpage, but it aint pretty




    #76 smiley4   Members   -  Reputation: 193

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    Posted 16 December 2002 - 03:12 AM

    I''m interested in learning more about this proccedural technique that you were explaining. Are there any programs that support exporting such files?

    If 3DS Max does, I''m going to have to rebuild one of my computers and put 2000 Professional on it. I''m still working on getting my cable set up, so the weekends will be silent for now.

    #77 smiley4   Members   -  Reputation: 193

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    Posted 16 December 2002 - 05:00 AM

    Oops, I had to re-read what you typed just to get what you were saying. So lets say I modeled a horse to those specifications -- actualy I would have to model several different types of horses and then apply the regional texturing to each model.

    Or, I could model parts of horses that are simular to certain breeds so that they can be used as certain sets. So, when you want to buy a horse in the game, the computer retrives a set of individual parts according to that particular breed.

    Please bare with me on my learning proccess of changing mediums.
    I''m used to making things for the cinematic end. So, when it comes to moding for a game, I need to know just how far I can take the polygon count without it bogging down the computer''s render time.

    #78 Polish   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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    Posted 16 December 2002 - 05:58 AM

    ktuluorion: Try www.yabbforum.com It''s free and I''ve used it a bunch of times, seems nice. If you have no luck I can set it up on my pc as a last resort. I''m on cable, but I don''t have any backup capability right now so it would probably be temporary anyway.

    About the procedural horse rendering, I guess I need to fully understand the process and it''s advantages. Is it used to generate art assets outside of the game, then to be used in the traditional stored-texture sense? Ot is it used to generate skins on the fly in-game? I see a potential problem with both.

    For the first method, it would probably be better just to pick a specific number of breeds, say 6, then make 3 different skin variations for each. To the general population, it will effectively look like 18 different horses. Most people know nothing about horses and horse breeds and what is what anyway (me included). Hell, if you wanted to divide it even further, you could not only variate patterns but re-use a pattern and just change the coloring drastically. I don''t see a specific advantage to do any more variation than that.
    Then add in certain horse models that fit a speciality, like a work horse or pack mule, and you have plenty of work for the modelers/skinners.

    In the second scenario, if you render every horse skin on the fly based only on breed, then you''ll never see the same horse twice. That''s good and bad, unless I just don''t understand the process. Does it re-render each time you load the game? Does it re-draw each time a horse leaves then enters the drawing distance from the player? Does the horse I own look diferent each time I load the game?

    Ganryu: Shoot me some concepts of a house or two, with an interior shot or something and I''ll try to come up with a "test" area in-engine that can show off waving grass, day/night cycles, textures, trees etc. If you tell me the approximate geographical location for a specific architectural style, even better. Then I can more accurately model local vegetation and distribution. I''d just like something to look at while we''re bs''ing about all of it. Thanks.

    No writers on board yet?

    #79 smiley4   Members   -  Reputation: 193

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    Posted 16 December 2002 - 06:44 AM

    I'm researching about the Old West culture, famous outlaws, sherrifs, towns, railroad routes, and fashions of the time. I'm working on a story that can be learned as you go. I'm hoping to make a story that consists of many sides so that you will have a good reason to join an outlaw's gang, side with the law, or side with the people. Basicly, if you don't get caught, it didn't happen, but be careful of your reputation or you may have to really prove yourself. Here's a site to some trains of the era.

    http://www.calneva.com/ghosts/rails.htm


    [edited by - smiley4 on December 16, 2002 1:49:42 PM]

    #80 bishop_pass   Members   -  Reputation: 108

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    Posted 16 December 2002 - 11:03 AM

    Regarding the horse texturing....

    As a procedural method to create diversity and realism in a preprocess, nothing beats it. It is simply harnessing the power of procedural texturing to reduce the workload of artists and allow for much more diversity. So, if the process is done as a preprocess, there are no disadvantages.

    As a runtime process, it is effective if the latest generation of graphics cards are used and it is implemented as a pixel shader. Once again, the disadvantages are minimal and the advantages are: distant horses consume minimal processing power, and closeup horses get superb detal and each horse gets a unique coloring.

    One more thing: don''t confuse coat coloring and markings with breeds. As for the general populace not knowing the difference, that is not true and irrelevant to boot. A horse with a certain marking on its forehead is just that. It is no different than a house with a unique stained glass window in its front door. Appreciation of said feature is a function of vision, not knowledge.




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