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top-down shoot'em up. post your ideas


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#21 Piksel   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 21 May 2000 - 02:13 PM

quote:
Original post by nathany

As for the power up system, I will have to see if I can get Overkill working again as I don''t remember exactly how that works. I found Overkill pretty challenging, so I never got all the power ups anyway (didn''t even pass planet 1)




About Overkill, its biggest problem was that when you died, you lost all of your weapons, etc. then you started off in the middle of the level, and you were screwed basically. Trying to beat level 2, after dying and losing all your weapons was impossible. So maybe do something like Sonic did. When you die (completely die, not just get hit with a missile), start off the level new, but randomly place all the weapons you had collected on the screen, and have them disappear after a few seconds. So when you start off, you have to race around and collect all your powerups before they disappear or go off the screen. That way, you won''t be totally helpless when you start off.

quote:


I am kind of biased towards the power up method vs. the store, so if it can be implemented in an interesting way that gives similar configurability to Tyrian, that would be way cooL. On the other hand, my bro. prefers the store where you can tweak your ship... what do others think?




Hmmm.. How bout having a pressing a key, like pause, and instantly going to a store. Or, when you are playing the game have their be powerups, but also have a store at the end of the level, or have a powerup that sends you to a store. Those are just quick little ideas.

Also, personally when I play games, I like to know when I get a powerup, wether it be a color change, or a feature(a little picture) on the ship.

For shooting the bullets, please allow the player to shoot as many bullets as he likes. Don''t make him only allowed to have 3 bullets on the screen at once, BUT when he is pressing the fire button, only fire a bullet when he first presses it down, don''t give him an invincible rapid fire if he holds down the key. If he does hold down the key however, make the bullets simple fire slower. Sometimes, your hand will start hurting after pressinf the fire key repeatedly, so you just want to rest it for a few seconds, but in some games if you hold down the fire key, it won''t fire, so you have to keep firing until beat the level. I hope that made sense.

Oh yes, I like to be able to choose my ship at the beggining, like either getting the slow, massively armored beasty, the fast one-shot-on-you-and-your-dead-ship, and the average ship. It lets you choose according to your abilities.

Have an easy, normal, or hard mode, where the easy mode is only different then the hard mode in that it takes a lot more hits to kill you, and you get less credit points for killing baddies (the credits count towards your high score, and towards the weapons you can buy), and the hard mode makes it easier for the baddies to kill you, but you get more credits.

Don''t forget about those of us that only play on keyboards, I hate games that are only designed for a joystick, and vise versa for those who only use joysticks probably.

One thing I personally don''t like it having to switch weapons and such in the heat of battle. Its nice to have lots of different weapons, but when some weapons won''t work on certain guys, it is very annoying to have to look down at your keyboard to press some key to change weapons while some cheap baddies are blasting at you. In Overkill, you just fired every weapon you collected at once, so if you had your normal little lazer thing, and then got some missiles, you would fire you missiles and lazers at the same time. It was very fun watching 20 different projectiles fling off you ship at once. Play the game to see what I mean.


These are just some of my own ideas, not laws. Anyways, thats all I can think of for now. Email me or something, if you don''t understand what I mean by anything.

-Piksel
Always remember, gameplay before graphics.

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#22 nathany   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 21 May 2000 - 04:38 PM

quote:
Original post by Piksel
About Overkill, its biggest problem was that when you died, you lost all of your weapons, etc. then you started off in the middle of the level, and you were screwed basically. Trying to beat level 2, after dying and losing all your weapons was impossible. So maybe do something like Sonic did. When you die (completely die, not just get hit with a missile), start off the level new, but randomly place all the weapons you had collected on the screen, and have them disappear after a few seconds. So when you start off, you have to race around and collect all your powerups before they disappear or go off the screen. That way, you won''t be totally helpless when you start off.



Reminds me of Descent, but I''ve never seen that implemented in an overhead shooter... excellent idea!

quote:

Hmmm.. How bout having a pressing a key, like pause, and instantly going to a store. Or, when you are playing the game have their be powerups, but also have a store at the end of the level, or have a powerup that sends you to a store. Those are just quick little ideas.



First idea wouldn''t work to well in two player.

But I think having both is a good idea... I haven''t decided between both in the same game, or Arcade/Story modes like Tyrian.

I had an idea that was more intended for a Galaga-like shooter, but may be able to be applied to this. You may be required to defend a colony, and if you don''t succeed... there is no store to go to. And also the idea of abandonned stations that you can "borrow" a few items from. Just have to apply that to a scrolling shooter somehow.

quote:

Also, personally when I play games, I like to know when I get a powerup, wether it be a color change, or a feature(a little picture) on the ship.

For shooting the bullets, please allow the player to shoot as many bullets as he likes. Don''t make him only allowed to have 3 bullets on the screen at once, BUT when he is pressing the fire button, only fire a bullet when he first presses it down, don''t give him an invincible rapid fire if he holds down the key. If he does hold down the key however, make the bullets simple fire slower. Sometimes, your hand will start hurting after pressinf the fire key repeatedly, so you just want to rest it for a few seconds, but in some games if you hold down the fire key, it won''t fire, so you have to keep firing until beat the level. I hope that made sense.



Hm. I prefer to just hold the button down. But then there is that other nifty feature in games where you have to single-shot... when you do hold the button down it charges and shoots a big powerful weapon. That''s kinda cooL.

quote:

Oh yes, I like to be able to choose my ship at the beggining, like either getting the slow, massively armored beasty, the fast one-shot-on-you-and-your-dead-ship, and the average ship. It lets you choose according to your abilities.

Have an easy, normal, or hard mode, where the easy mode is only different then the hard mode in that it takes a lot more hits to kill you, and you get less credit points for killing baddies (the credits count towards your high score, and towards the weapons you can buy), and the hard mode makes it easier for the baddies to kill you, but you get more credits.



Difficulty levels generally affect the number of bad guys too... certain enemies only appear on harder levels. An interesting side effect could be having some of these enemies carry bonuses.

quote:

Don''t forget about those of us that only play on keyboards, I hate games that are only designed for a joystick, and vise versa for those who only use joysticks probably.

One thing I personally don''t like it having to switch weapons and such in the heat of battle. Its nice to have lots of different weapons, but when some weapons won''t work on certain guys, it is very annoying to have to look down at your keyboard to press some key to change weapons while some cheap baddies are blasting at you. In Overkill, you just fired every weapon you collected at once, so if you had your normal little lazer thing, and then got some missiles, you would fire you missiles and lazers at the same time. It was very fun watching 20 different projectiles fling off you ship at once. Play the game to see what I mean.



Unfortunately I haven''t got it to work.

I''m was planning to have the missiles on a seperate button. Chances are the missiles would all be heat-seekers, and limited in number. Everything else would fire with one button, but may have a config button that affects which angles they fire at. A 3rd weapon may be bombs.

No plans as of yet to have weapons that don''t work on certain enemies. Might be interesting on a few bosses, just not too often. Like a nasty flaming baddy that absorbs certain weapons...

quote:

These are just some of my own ideas, not laws. Anyways, thats all I can think of for now. Email me or something, if you don''t understand what I mean by anything.

Always remember, gameplay before graphics.



No, never!

- n8


nathany.com

#23 Hase   Members   -  Reputation: 313

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Posted 21 May 2000 - 09:36 PM

The 3D-part....

Anyone know Layer section?

there are some nice "3d-effects", done just by moving the background (multiple layers, parallax) rapidly to the side and applying some sort of push on the player´s ship.

Looks really cool when you do a turn to face the planet.

Also scenes between levels are important. Like flying high above a planet and at the end of the level entering the atmosphere. In the next level you start out in the clouds and slowly descend to ground level.


Is it really worth putting in a story?

#24 nathany   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 06:15 AM

quote:
Original post by Hase
The 3D-part....

Anyone know Layer section?

there are some nice "3d-effects", done just by moving the background (multiple layers, parallax) rapidly to the side and applying some sort of push on the player´s ship.

Looks really cool when you do a turn to face the planet.

Also scenes between levels are important. Like flying high above a planet and at the end of the level entering the atmosphere. In the next level you start out in the clouds and slowly descend to ground level.

Is it really worth putting in a story?


That''s a good question... how many people would tend to skip over the cinematics while playing (if there were cinematics)? How often would you like to see cinematics (i.e. every 3 levels?)

Maybe this is a good reason to have story/arcade modes like Tyrian though. Arcade mode wouldn''t have any cinematics.

The scenes between levels could be cool... short enough that i don''t think people would skip them.

- n8







nathany.com

#25 nathany   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 07:36 AM

There are so many good ideas to add to an overhead shooter, as demonstrated by this thread. But even making a game like Tyrian with nothing new added would take quite some time.

You may have read that DX8 is integrated DDraw into D3D (I know I read it somewhere else before getting access to DX8beta1, I wish I had a bookmark!). Considering the potential release date of a game like this, I''m thinking that it would make most sense to use 2D in 3D or just use a 3d engine like baskuenen was talking about. That makes it even more complicated.

My problem is I don''t want to make a sub-par overhead shooter, I want to add something to the genre. But this will also be my first real Windows game with a real attempt to distribute it.

I am thinking about dropping back to one of my previous designs, similar to Galaga, Space Bats and Galactix... I think adding a few interesting ideas to a retro-shooter would make for a more manageable project that should be completed by the end of the year.

Hopefully the likes of Hasbro don''t decide to sue me because I have a triangle-shaped ship in space, but that''s a separate topic.

When that''s done, then perhaps I will tackle this bigger project. I hope I''m not letting anyone down too harshly, and I will still be using a few of the ideas posted in my retro-shooter.

Thanks everyone,

Nathan.


nathany.com

#26 Seigfried   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 08:28 AM

Just a random suggestion... if you weren''t thinking of doing a straight "traditional" top-scroller (in the Tyrian/Raptor/Lifeforce mold), one idea I''d thought of a long time ago was having 2d mission-based game... Sort of a cross between Escape Veloctiy for the Mac (great game if you''ve played it, but you probably haven''t) and Wing Commander.

Basically, the idea is that you have an overhead map (either in space or planetside) with an asteroids-style control sceme (Plus, perhaps, a "brake" button), and you''d be sent missions a la Mechwarrior... This setup would allow for more storyline (if you wanted to include it) and- if you had some levels planetside and some in deep space- at least some more differentientation between levels.

Just a random thought, if you wanted to try something a little different

--{-Seig----

-- EMail: Seigfried@nervhq.org
-- AIM: SeigfriedH

#27 baskuenen   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 10:02 AM

Hey nathany,

I''ve tried a fast conversion from 24bit to 16bit, because more people couldn''t run my demo.
I''m sorry but conversion took more than than I thought...maybe in a while...(exams nearing)...

Good luck on your shooter! And if you can, post your findings here...I''m real interrested!!!!!!!!

#28 nathany   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 10:38 AM

quote:
Original post by baskuenen
I''ve tried a fast conversion from 24bit to 16bit, because more people couldn''t run my demo.
I''m sorry but conversion took more than than I thought...maybe in a while...(exams nearing)...



Why not try converting up to 32-bit? All you need is an extra useless byte per pixel.

- n8




nathany.com

#29 baskuenen   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 11:15 AM

This is a serious question:

Why does your card support 32bits and not 24bits? Is this normal?

I''m having a lot of problems selecting the right screenmode (not only for this demo).
I am using DirectDraw.

Is this a normal problem?

Is 320x200 still supported by modern video cards?

And to nathany: Will 640x480x32bits with DirectDraw be oke?


#30 nathany   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 04:44 PM

quote:
Original post by baskuenen
This is a serious question:

Why does your card support 32bits and not 24bits? Is this normal?



I don''t know if it''s normal, it could just be the Win2k drivers that don''t support it (Voodoo3 2000).

quote:

I''m having a lot of problems selecting the right screenmode (not only for this demo).
I am using DirectDraw.

Is this a normal problem?


No...I don''t think so.

quote:

Is 320x200 still supported by modern video cards?



Yup... but why on earth would you wanna do that?

quote:

And to nathany: Will 640x480x32bits with DirectDraw be oke?



Or 16-bits... either one.

- n8


nathany.com

#31 Hase   Members   -  Reputation: 313

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 10:40 PM

quote:
Original post by nathany

[quote] Original post by Hase
The 3D-part....


Also scenes between levels are important. Like flying high above a planet and at the end of the level entering the atmosphere. In the next level you start out in the clouds and slowly descend to ground level.

Is it really worth putting in a story?


That''s a good question... how many people would tend to skip over the cinematics while playing (if there were cinematics)? How often would you like to see cinematics (i.e. every 3 levels?)

Maybe this is a good reason to have story/arcade modes like Tyrian though. Arcade mode wouldn''t have any cinematics.

The scenes between levels could be cool... short enough that i don''t think people would skip them.

- n8


I didn´t mean cinematics, for a one man show they´re too much bother anyway. What i meant was very short in-game bits, not like a cut-scene but one that lasts 5-10 seconds, and maybe lets you fly the plane (possibly show the score/kill list?) while something cool happens.

Examples:
fighter plane picked up by mothership
landing on some kind of carrier
entering atmosphere (red glow around ship -> turns into fireball)
diving through a cloud layer (first part above the cloud, then a fade to white and back again below the clouds -> ground visible)

stuff like that ...





nathany.com



#32 Marauderz   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 May 2000 - 11:08 PM

Let''s see now... this is what I like about shooters.

1) I should be rewarded by the effort I put into mashing buttons, there was this one shoot them up I played where the MORE you mashed the button, you actually got powered up!

2) Lots of explosions when stuff die, but.... the explosions shouldn''t get in the way. Prefedably explosions are blended instead of fully opaque.

3) Bombs should be instantenous on release, I prefer to use bombs to help me get out of tight situations... or you can have a few types of bombs like in Raiden 2, where you had a slow acting megabomb, and a fast acting missle cluster.

4) You need to have LOTS of powerups to satisfy the power up hungry, the best example of this is GigaWing by Capcom where just by reflecting the shots of your enemies you get TONS of powerups and stuff.

-------------------------
-Now Working on Pokemon like Engine!




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