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Chicks and Games


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Buster   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 07:43 AM

All this psychobabble about "girl-games" is really starting to piss me off. The bottom line is this: If we design good games, they will play ''em. For instance, last night at work I got a whuppin in StarCraft by, yes, a girl. Why does she play? It''s a "good game". My GF plays CivII, which I would never consider a "chick game" but she plays it day in day out. Why? It''s a "good game". So the next time you wonder why nobody is playing your super-spiffy 64 bit graphics, round surfaces, alpha-shadow blitting, 200 frames/second Quake 9 clone, maybe it''s because your game sucks! Apologies to any women that actually play Quake... no offense intended.

Sponsor:

#2 Landfish   Members   -  Reputation: 288

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 10:44 AM

Ummm, yeah!



Who was arguing against this, again?

#3 dog135   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 11:46 AM

I have seen articles in magazines where they say many women wish that games were geared more twards them. I think many of the new games do that. For instance, in UT you can be a male or female. Girls don''t always want to play the big muscular Rambo character. I know my wife, and a few other women I know, don''t like playing the shoot-everything-that-moves games. They want something fun but not death related.

"If we design good games, they will play ''em."

That''s like saying if you make a good movie, people will watch it. Problem is, you''re making action games, which many women don''t like. (some do, most don''t) Just like with movies.

E:cb woof!

#4 Hase   Members   -  Reputation: 313

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 07:55 PM

My experience:
women tend to go more for building-games like the Settlers, Sim City or stuff like that.
Not that this is a rule, but it seems to me that games where you hafta put stuff in order are more popular with women than shoot em ups. My girlfriend was totally hooked on tetris for a while (but also pharao and stuff).

Good games will sell; to any audience



#5 Jewelaye   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 09:00 PM

Ok here i go again! I like playing UT!!! and so do i play Quake! and even soldier of fortune!..but the main problem that makes the really cool and good shot em up games not that fun is that EVERY SINGLE GUY BEATES ME!!! ....
then except for that i love them! also i love play Delta Force! and Swat and rainbow 6 so....what all this chattering that girls dont play those games? ....

(btw my mother loves tetris!... (and i get boored)...)



Jewelaye

#6 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 09:56 PM

i like the concept of woman and games

#7 rivit   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 May 2000 - 09:59 PM

i also like the way the beat me 2/i like it ruff ..lol

#8 Jewelaye   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 May 2000 - 01:59 AM

Hey Rivit!
i also like the way the beat me 2/i like it ruff ..lol
Hmmmmmm.....how old are you?





Jewelaye

#9 rivit   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 May 2000 - 02:10 AM

28,but i spell like a five year old lol

#10 NeoReality   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 May 2000 - 02:53 AM


If your having problems against Male players in Quake or UT, you can always try the tactic Sharon, my Partner, uses. Real life violence. An unexpected punch from your left really screws up your ability to aim!

I read an article in PC Format about ''Girl Games''. The games were lame. Even the young Girl who they got to review the games thought the where poor. Very bad Barbie tie in''s and hourse riding games that required no skill, imagination or thought.

Personally I think a good plot and interesting characters draws women in more. They put themselves more into the game. Sharon was screaming when playing BladeRunner. The Chinese Guy from came running towards her on the rooftop, she froze in terror then screamed.

And going back to Quake or UT. Practice, or take up snipering

What else do you need; besides a miricle.
Money. Lots of Money. or I''ll never do a sequel!

#11 SonicSilcion   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 May 2000 - 03:27 AM

Neo, you hit it right on the nail saying that ''girl games'' are "games that required no skill, imagination or thought." That lost point is the clincher. I do know girls that would rather blast my ass in Quake3 or UT {and quite a few are pretty good at it}, but in general fems want games that callenge them intellectually.

I should know. My {older} sister and I grew up on Ataris and PCs. She''s always being playing either an adventure game or a CRPG {the type without a plot.} Right now she''s hooked on "Nox", so her tastes haven''t canged too much. As you likely know, the CRPGs were filled with mostly battle, not puzzles and plot. That kind of outs the ''constructive'' idea.

As for me, yeah I''m kind of an adrenaline junkie, but I never liked the ''twitch'' factor the gore too much {thus I never really played doom.} On top of that, I love the old push-block puzzles games. Guess that''s what happens when a guy is both a middle child and a Pisces.

#12 Landfish   Members   -  Reputation: 288

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Posted 28 May 2000 - 07:10 AM

Oh, yeah, sure. Blame your horoscope! Take the easy way out!
=)

#13 acw83   Members   -  Reputation: 174

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 04:21 PM

Chicks think?


I wish I hadn''t said that.

#14 Landfish   Members   -  Reputation: 288

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Posted 02 June 2000 - 06:20 PM

While this is at the top of the forum, I won''t hesitate to post here without fear of bringing the topic back up. What does this have to do with design? I understand the good intentions of the original poster, but this feels like more of a lounge issue. Am I wrong?

#15 Hase   Members   -  Reputation: 313

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Posted 04 June 2000 - 10:33 PM

I think it IS a design issue - there are a lot of "girlie-games" around and ....

is there ANYONE in favor of these?

u´re right, the thing has deteriorated to a lounge issue....

BUT YOU POSTED HERE TOO - HA HA


#16 Ironblayde   Members   -  Reputation: 130

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 06:28 PM

Heh, somebody mentioned "horse riding games that require no skill" and I just had to bring up something that''s totally off-topic. Is anyone around here from Japan, or have you been there? They have the craziest racing-type games over there. One of the ones I saw, that your post reminded me of, was just like you''d normally think of as a racing game, only with horses. Heh, I thought it was interesting. There was all sorts of other things, but I won''t get into it. For all I know, the arcades over here have the same things. I never go.

Whoever wrote that article on ''girl games'' has obviously never met my girlfriend either. She''s just about the only person I know who stands a chance against me in Twisted Metal 2. ^_^

-Ironblayde
 Aeon Software

#17 karasu   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 01:25 PM


Whenever I see the phrase ''girl games'' it usually irritates me because, as someone else said, it seems to be code for ''shallow, pointless, and boring''. If I remember right Cosmopolitan did an article awhile back on ''women''s software'' and included things like virtual make-over kits and kitchen remodeling software. Ugh. Note to men: don''t ever read Cosmo or take it seriously.

Now as a woman I enjoy Unreal Tournament and Quake( got my start playing Wolfenstein(remember that, anyone?)) as well as other types of games(let''s see... Legacy of Kain:Soulreaver, the Final Fantasy games save the last one, etc.). In short: I game. Not lately but I do. And what draws me is a combination of the following: action, great graphics, a well-thought out plot, a new twist on an old theme, and so on. Just like any other gamer.

What does irritate me about ''men''s games''(read, anything remotely interesting or entertaining) is that sometimes things slip through to the final version that I feel wouldn''t if any of the programmers were a woman. I''m not saying men are inherently sexist, but being men they''re so used to that viewpoint it''s hard to see things any other way. Women are the same way.

For instance, every time I see a fighting game with women in stilletos I feel the urge to mail the programmers a pair of mere three-inch heels and challenge them to walk in them, let alone kick ass. While I''m at it I might as well throw in a Quadruple E bra simulator for them to wear around their necks while wearing the heels. When I see an ad for Perfect Dark, where they show the female character and voice over ''So what are you going to wear?'' it irks me, even if the clothes closet is filled with automatic weapons.

Yeah, yeah, I know who the primary audience is, but how are you ever to increase that audience(i.e. with women like me) if you refuse to do anything but cater to the 14-year old that lives in your head?

All of this is rhetorical, by the way, I''m not sniping anyone in particular. And I''m aware of supply/demand and marketing... this is more of an idealistic rant.

--
karasu

#18 Landfish   Members   -  Reputation: 288

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 01:46 PM

Damn right. Play games because they are fun, not because they are targeted at your "demographic sector". Let''s face it, any self proclaimed "girl game" only exists because some tightassed executive at some interactive division of some large industry thinks that UT is too "masculine" for a female to play.

In fact, I say f*ck it. I''m sick of the stereotype (read: cliche) of women, and I''m a guy! I''m not just trying to get chicks either! I''m sick of companies thinking they can make a "good game" by creating it to fill a goddamn niche in the market! I''m sick of the view that poeple are "consumers" whose soul cause in this shallow existance is to take half assed, strategically positioned marketed goods and transmute them into profits for someone who couldn''t even make the product themselves!

How''s *THAT* for a rant?

I think that says it all... except: "What can we do to make games appeal to those "demographic sectors" and not be crappy?" Girls, I invite you to go to town on this one. Yes, I know it has more to do with removing drivel from existing games than with creating content of a different style... but humor me. There has to be something that girls (read: intelligent people) find a complete lack of in the market today, otherwise girls would play video games.

I''ll start it off. My feminine side (repressed though it may be) is crying out for some character development on a scale that exceeds that of a fourth-grade creative writing course. Maybe I''m wrong, this isn''t a gender issue, is it? No, I really am just using this as a staging ground for some more of my anarchist ideas. Crap. So sue me.

Alright, since it looks like this post will be here for a while, I''ll stop fighting it. Humph.

=)



This post was brought to you by the letter "Land", and the number "Fish!"

#19 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 5058

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Posted 09 June 2000 - 12:14 PM

quote:
Original post by Landfish

I think that says it all... except: "What can we do to make games appeal to those "demographic sectors" and not be crappy?" Girls, I invite you to go to town on this one. Yes, I know it has more to do with removing drivel from existing games than with creating content of a different style... but humor me. There has to be something that girls (read: intelligent people) find a complete lack of in the market today, otherwise girls would play video games.



It really depends on what genre game you''re talking about. For an RPG, less monster-splatting, give the player a way to earn the ability to influence how the relationship between the characters develops. Tender Loving Care is a really bad example of how to do this. It''s not satisifying to try to manipulate characters'' relationships unless you can see how they''re changing.

For an adventure game, I personally would really like to see some games that try to trigger wonder rather than horror in the player. Puzzles that require analyzing NPCs'' motives and emotions are wonderful.

For both of these types of game it''s good to have an even gender balance and characters with non-stereotypical personalities. Also putting the player where they can help NPCs rebuild after one of the disasters that are abundant in these types of games would be good.





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