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#1 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 05 June 2000 - 06:38 AM

I''m currently working on designing a game for a Webpage. The game would be played directly on the Website (coded in HTML and reling on a data base for game engine data). I''m hoping somebody here here may be able to give me some directions into which tools would best fit this project. I''m currently using FrontPage 97 and looking to update to 2K but i''m hoping to get a tool that will allow me to get more flexability out of webpage designing. The game is a strategy game and requires the screen to be updated once per 10 mins.

Sponsor:

#2 Tsutomegi   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 05 June 2000 - 06:47 AM

Try notepad if you want more flexibility...
if you go to www.tucows.com, and then find a program called 1st page 2000, its a better HTML editor, and it comes equipped with various java-scripts that may be usefull...

#3 Ironblayde   Members   -  Reputation: 130

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 06:14 PM

Long live Notepad! Actually, I use a nice freeware editor called HomeSite. It doesn''t have any built-in scripts like the one Tsutomegi mentioned, but it''s still worth taking a look at. For that matter, I think I''ll go find me a copy of 1st Page 2000. ^_^

-Ironblayde
 Aeon Software

#4 Prosper/LOADED   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 08:53 PM

Notepad sucks! It''s the worst text editor I''ve ever seen!

Ultra-Edit 32 rocks! But it''s a shareware (not very expansive though). Check it at http://www.ultraedit.com/





Prosper / LOADED corporation

#5 jumble   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 09:05 PM

I use Programmers File Editor 32 myself. Useful for Perl scripts as it can save in UNIX format and has loads of useful commands (executing in a DOS shell, for example).

/home/./~jumble
---------------

#6 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 09:53 PM

Thanks champs! I''ll check them all out. Your help''s very much appriecated. If there''s any other comments please don''t hesitate :-)

Paul



#7 ncsu121978   Members   -  Reputation: 410

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 10:03 PM

Long Live Notepad.
Notepad is great. Before I got my MSVC 6 compiler,
I was using DGJPP and all my .cpp and .h files were done in Notepad.

"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail


#8 Prosper/LOADED   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 06 June 2000 - 10:08 PM

By the way, I don''t think you can do a game in PURE HTML, you''ll need something "dynamic". I know 3 tools which would all be fine :
- ASP (Microsoft dynamic HTML)
- PHP (kind of ASP for UNIX/LINUX/WINDOWS)
- JAVA (applets, I think you know what it is)

I used PHP and it''s very easy to learn. But you should use the Linux/Unix version since the Windows one is quite buggy.

Check it at the official PHP web site

Have fun!



Prosper / LOADED corporation

#9 Kylotan   Moderators   -  Reputation: 3329

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 12:43 AM

Don''t bother with Frontpage 2000!!! I have to use it at work. If you''re on a budget and don''t mind just working with the code, I recommend Textpad (www.textpad.com). You can use Clip Libraries to insert tags quickly and easily. If you have the money though, get Dreamweaver as that produces nice html from its WYSIWYG window and yet won''t mess with anything you code directly.

Why do I say not to use Frontpage 2000? Read on...

When you delete a line or block of text from the main edit window, it has a tendency to scroll the text below it up half a line too far, corrupting the display. You have to scroll whatever is visible right offscreen and then back again to see it clearly.

You can sometimes make alterations to the code, click the ''close'' button, and it closes automatically with no prompt to save your work. Re-open the document, and it wasn''t saved.

There is no Save All button! There is not even such a command hidden deep within the toolbar/menu customization facility. Since it will not always prompt you to save your changes, the only safe way to exit the program is to click save, close, save, close, etc for every window.

Just like many other programs, Frontpage features some sort of site management where, upon renaming or moving a file, all files with links to that file will be updated with the new link. However, this update does not work on pages you currently have open and in HTML view. It does not tell you that it has failed to update the pages until it has successfully updated all the others. You then have to either rename the page back to what it was originally, or try to fix all the broken links yourself.

Frontpage''s ''normal'' view often bears no resemblance to what Internet Explorer displays. One would expect some discrepancy between Frontpage and a 3rd party browser, but not between Frontpage and its own browser.

Undo sometimes inexplicably doesn''t work. Other times, it seems to undo an action done a long time previous, leaving all intermediate changes intact, and often with it not being clear just what exactly it changed.

Saving a file often results in the edit window scrolling up or down, meaning the user has to scroll back to whatever part of the document they were looking at.

Selecting a block of text that includes long lines causes the view to jerk from left to right, as the focus follows the end of each line selected.

Has been known to insert a tag inside another tag (eg. >) when elements are dragged around with the mouse. Also unhesitatingly creates overlapping tags.

Unlike nearly every other tool you pay money for, it features no check or indicator for overlapping or unmatched tags!

Help system is slow and unconventional, involving resizing of the Frontpage window as it docks against the side of the screen. Pointless help entries such as "To learn more about pages, click the graphic." Along with the graphic (just an icon), that was an entire help page. Why not just show the target page immediately? Only Dreamweaver manages a worse help system, but at least that is in the name of platform independence (web browser-based Java help.)

Sites in Frontpage are called ''Webs''. (See also: directories being called folders.) There seems to be no reason for this other than to try and set Frontpage apart from the norm and lock in its own standard jargon, complicating the migration to other editors.

Can''t select more than 1 file at a time in the ''Folder View'' window. If you wanted to move half the contents of a directory, while taking advantage of the automatic renaming facility, you would have to do it one by one.

Did I mention that it sucks? "Freedom to Innovate"? More like "Freedom To Irritate".

#10 LoRE   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 04:28 AM

How dare you diss the wise and wonderful program known as Notepad! Notepad is a God among lesser programs. Every fool knows that Notepad is not only the best text editor as it was originally intended, but also the best programming tool, web design essential, music composer, and web browser.

Vive la Notepad!!! ...or something.



LoRE

#11 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 07:47 PM

Would anyone be interested in assisting me in this game. The game design is completed. It''s very simple, it basically revolves around a combat engine and moving troops. I''d be happy to email it design document to anyone here that''d be willing to assist.
At the moment there is only two people involved. Myself (Game Design and Artist and dabbler in frontpage) and a friend who knows html and VB.
We''re just about to construct the game in VB to test the game balance.
I wouldn''t be asking for a marriage certificate from anyone just an interest atm. But if you would like to be officially included that can be done, happily, at any time ;-).
Consider this an open invitation to anyone who''s finds this subject of significant interest.



#12 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 07 June 2000 - 07:56 PM

Just a design tip:
Make an engine seperated from the parsing of html, then you could actually make verioms of the game in xml, wml ......
just a thought

#13 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 04:51 AM

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Just a design tip:
Make an engine seperated from the parsing of html, then you could actually make verioms of the game in xml, wml ......
just a thought


My apologies but what do you mean by verioms?



#14 Tsutomegi   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 04:56 AM

Verioms = Versions
just another way to say it.

in other news,
i may be able to help you out, what do you need?
my email is mark_strendin@yahoo.ca

#15 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 05:27 AM

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Just a design tip:
Make an engine seperated from the parsing of html, then you could actually make verioms of the game in xml, wml ......
just a thought


Is this somewhere along the lines of... each person that loads the screen up would see a different web page? or something like that.



#16 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 05:38 AM

quote:
Original post by Tsutomegi

Verioms = Versions
just another way to say it.

in other news,
i may be able to help you out, what do you need?
my email is mark_strendin@yahoo.ca


As i noted in the email, we know that portions of the screen can be updated without updating the entire page. This would significantly increase the refreshment speed.

The issue i''m fighting over with myself at the moment is will the game have to become completely turn based. I really wanted to keep a real time feel to it. Because once it becomes a turn based game then it might as well be a email game which is not what i''m tring to achieve.



#17 ManaSink   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 08 June 2000 - 07:24 AM

Can you give a link to your design doc, or post the details?, I am curious about a real-time html game displayed via a 10 min refresh. (Sounds like a very long playing game and I dig serious strategy...)

I think the statement about splitting your engine from the html/xml parsing is more about flexability in display formatting than session management. If all of your game logic is seperated from the display logic, then you can change the display logic without modification to your game code. You can also support different views, IE one person could access the game via the web, another via a stand-alone application.

If you have hard-coded the html source into your game code, then changing the display of a single item involves changing game code for that item. Changing an entire screen might require major modifications to your VB code. If you have seperated it, the game code remains static, and you just have to change the display code or display scripting.

Prosper/LOADED mentioned java applets, I would add that for dynamic pages you could also use Java servlets or JSP (Java Server Pages). It all depends on your vision as a whole though...

#18 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 18 June 2000 - 04:47 PM

All the game logic can be worked out on the server, it works as follows...

Player/s tag the game they want to play,
Player/s enter E-merical (waiting for game to be built on server.
Player/s enter game world (looks like the display properties box for win95 etc)
Player/s spend "X" amount of time selecting/moving/building troops
Player/s time runs out, round "X" is over.
Player/s enter e-mercial whilst game logic is solved
Server sends data to browser
Next round begins

I can''t program this but i''m constantly cluing together what can and can''t be done. If you would like to work on this with me please email me at paulwc@cherry.com.au or develop this game for your own web site.

This game design is finished, it''s called Element 247. I''m currently working on the next game which will be an economic strategy game kind of like M.U.L.E. (C64 game).

I''d prefer not to put my game designs on this site yet.

Paul C



#19 Poltras   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 18 June 2000 - 05:34 PM

Ok I''m interested in... But I won''t work very much for now (I can promise a mere 10 hours a week)... But as soon as I get more free time, I can be more involved.

Here is my email: h_larsen@hotmail.com

More, if you want a real time feeling, you could be interested in Utopia. It IS an online game with real time mechanics... If you need help on it and it working, just e-mail me. I''ve been playing this game for more than 2 years.

Programming is:
A.The art of debugging a blank sheet of paper (or an empty file).
B.A pastime similar to banging one's head against a wall, but with fewer opportunities for reward.
C.The most fun you can have with your clothes on (although clothes are not mandatory).


#20 Dracula   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 18 June 2000 - 06:05 PM

Utopia rules and Avians are the best!

But to do an online game like yours Paul, wouldn''t you have to make it more of a CGI based game than html?




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