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pico vs emacs vs vi vs edit vs notepad


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#21 rk   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 27 May 2003 - 11:17 AM

joe

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#22 neurokaotix   Members   -  Reputation: 100

Posted 27 May 2003 - 11:17 AM

Notepad kills the competition

James Simmons
MindEngine Development
http://medev.sourceforge.net

#23 zer0wolf   Members   -  Reputation: 1018

Posted 27 May 2003 - 11:17 AM

Actually, now that I think about it... I use Wordpad more often than anything else, and I have Word installed. lol

so I change my vote to Wordpad!

[edited by - zer0wolf on May 27, 2003 6:19:14 PM]

#24 Kadesh   Members   -  Reputation: 112

Posted 27 May 2003 - 11:20 AM

quote:
Original post by Arild Fines
I''ve been using gvim on Windows for quite a while now(2 years). It sucks for a lot of reasons, including, but not limited to:

- The cursor cannot be outside of the visible area. If you try to scroll away from the cursor, the cursor follows.
- Managing larger projects with more than a couple of files is awkward at best
- You are required to save a buffer before changing to another
- The adherence to Windows UI standards is sketchy at best, even when sourcing mswin.vim
- It leaves you very dependent on your .vimrc - it''s pretty hard to use when you''re at a location without your own .vimrc


I think your problem is using a UNIX tool on Windows. Windows just isn''t up to being as efficient as UNIX .

Anyway...
Point 1 means you''re used to crippling yourself with a mouse while editting text on a keyboard.
Point 2 means you''re used to crippling yourself with Windows.
Points 3, 4, 5 are irrelevant. Being a UNIX incarnation, it obviously doesn''t give a damn about Windows. You are not required to save jack shit. And going to any new location is going to introduce usability difficulties for any program.


#25 Arild Fines   Members   -  Reputation: 968

Posted 27 May 2003 - 11:47 AM

quote:
Original post by Kadesh
I think your problem is using a UNIX tool on Windows. Windows just isn''t up to being as efficient as UNIX .


That''s a load of bull, and you knew so when you wrote it.
quote:

Anyway...
Point 1 means you''re used to crippling yourself with a mouse while editting text on a keyboard.


Who said anything about a mouse? I said CURSOR. I don''t use the mouse in gvim.
quote:

Point 2 means you''re used to crippling yourself with Windows.


What does "crippling yourself with Windows" have to do with managing larger projects?
quote:

Points 3, 4, 5 are irrelevant.


Excretus bovum.
quote:

Being a UNIX incarnation, it obviously doesn''t give a damn about Windows.


Only 4 was in any way related to Windows.
quote:

You are not required to save jack shit.


It won''t let you switch buffers without saving.
quote:

And going to any new location is going to introduce usability difficulties for any program.


Not a program that has sensible defaults. If MS employees find themselves constantly changing the settings in VS.NET before presentations, they are expected to file an issue requesting that the defaults be changed.

May I suggest you get your head out of Linus'' rectum and realize thatjust because someone chooses to work on Windows doesn''t mean they are retarted? I find your condescending tone extremely offensive, but I am grateful there are people like you around - you prevent phenomena like linux from ever becoming a real threat.



AnkhSVN - A Visual Studio .NET Addin for the Subversion version control system.

#26 zer0wolf   Members   -  Reputation: 1018

Posted 27 May 2003 - 11:57 AM

uhmm... I don''t think he was being condescending at all. The various *nix''s are more efficient that windows for just about everything except ease of use.

I''m now a FreeBSD user (so I don''t have my head up Linus''s ass ), and I completely agree with what Kadesh said... he(she) just made a couple of hasty assumptions. It happens...

*nix is more efficient while Windows is more user-friendsly. These are pretty much established facts that are pretty hard to argue with...

#27 neurokaotix   Members   -  Reputation: 100

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:00 PM

quote:
Original post by zer0wolf
*nix is more efficient while Windows is more user-friendsly. These are pretty much established facts that are pretty hard to argue with...


That seems to be a hasty assumption. Many of Windows'' user-friendly features make it more efficient. So what is more efficient to you... Double clicking on a text file, copying some text, pressing the ''x'' in the corner and your done, or the textbased *nix alternative?



James Simmons
MindEngine Development
http://medev.sourceforge.net

#28 Beer Hunter   Members   -  Reputation: 712

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:04 PM

Hmmm.
I''ve been using nedit.

#29 Witchcraven   Members   -  Reputation: 564

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:06 PM

Keyboard combos can be faster than mouse selection

#30 zer0wolf   Members   -  Reputation: 1018

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:16 PM

actually, by more efficient I meant with your hardware resources

As far as whether highlighting with the mouse is more efficient of if keystrokes are more efficient, I think thats just a personal preference sort of thing.

---------------------------------------------------
laziness is the foundation of efficiency
retrospiral.net | llamas! | megatokyo | FreeBSD | gamedev.net

[edited by - zer0wolf on May 27, 2003 7:18:54 PM]

#31 rohde   Members   -  Reputation: 432

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:18 PM

quote:
Original post by Witchcraven
Keyboard combos can be faster than mouse selection


Sure. They really can. But why not have both?

In Windows you usually have the choice. You can use the mouse. This is great for beginners. They can get started RIGHT away, without need to look at some big, confusing chart with many, many different combos.

Or you can use the accelerator keys. Like CTRL-SHIFT-B for compile in VS.NET. Great for intermediate/experiences users. It speeds up the process and spares my sore albow

When I need to use E-mac or whatever, I have 4 A4 pages next to me. I need them to look up the different commands, cause if I forget one I can''t default to mouse. There is no mouse. (well I know that some emacs have this "menu"-simulation. But not the one I need to use ).

I think Linux is ok; for some stuff. But please, the usability is not very high...

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

#32 zer0wolf   Members   -  Reputation: 1018

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:30 PM

not very high usability? Linux and *BSD have an insanely high usability because of just how customizable they are. The OSs'' codes are open source, so you can hack away at it to your heart''s concept, whereas Windows obviously is not.

Don''t get me wrong, I''m a fresh convert to FreeBSD, but I still have my Win2k for a number of purposes... namely game development with DirectX!

---------------------------------------------------
laziness is the foundation of efficiency
retrospiral.net | llamas! | megatokyo | FreeBSD | gamedev.net

#33 rohde   Members   -  Reputation: 432

Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:38 PM

quote:
Original post by zer0wolf
not very high usability? Linux and *BSD have an insanely high usability because of just how customizable they are. The OSs' codes are open source, so you can hack away at it to your heart's concept, whereas Windows obviously is not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fresh convert to FreeBSD, but I still have my Win2k for a number of purposes... namely game development with DirectX!



All right. Maybe I used the term "usability" differently then. I mean usability in the sense of user-frindliness. Usability as in a system that is easy to learn and remember.

Linux may be flekxible. I agree on that. But it's not easy to learn.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.

[edited by - rohde on May 27, 2003 7:39:23 PM]

#34 Kadesh   Members   -  Reputation: 112

Posted 27 May 2003 - 01:01 PM

quote:
Original post by Arild Fines
Nothing important


For someone who insults me for being "condescending" and thinking everyone who uses Windows is "retarted" (oh the irony), you yourself are pretty insulting and juvenile.

Anyway, I suggest you reread what I wrote because I''m not going to correct your mistakes.

Okay, maybe a little.

Points 3, 4, 5 are still irrelevant. Point 3 is flat wrong. I''d give you the answer but your opinion of me wouldn''t change. I''m not in the habit of helping closed minded fools. Point 4 is still a problem with you using a UNIX tool in Windows with other Windows tools. Point 5 is still a problem with you using someone else''s computer and not vim. Why are you coding on someone else''s computer anyway???

I don''t understand the problem with point 1. Even if the cursor doesn''t follow, you''re not hitting any extra keys if does (okay, maybe in the odd case of the beginning or end of file where page up/down would make vim forget which line on the screen you were on, I don''t consider that a huge loss). If you''re really really intent on not losing that precious cursor position, :split, ctrl-w j, scroll, :q! .

I was trying to make a small joke about being crippled with Windows. I have never had a problem keeping files organized with *nix. I have had a number of problems wtih organizing things in Windows. It''s all a matter of what you''re familiar with. In this case, it boils down to using UNIX stuff in Windows.

For the record, I don''t believe anyone is stupid because of choosing Windows. Indeed, most people shouldn''t need to take the time to learn *nix because it wouldn''t provide much value to them. My parents don''t care that copying files could take only seconds in Linux or that they can recompile their kernel for more performance. They want to *click click click* and be done. For computer professionals however, I believe *nix provides a number of benefits. First of all being a broadened experience. "If you only have a hammer, everything looks like nail" and all that. Furthermore, I believe that learning *nix provides you with a better understanding your computer. Something akin to learning assembly gives you a better understanding of C and C++.

As for driving people away from Linux, on the contrary, I''ve personally helped several people learn Linux. I don''t push and I don''t assume it''s a cure all for their computer problems. If you''re interested in why I thought they could use Linux: 2 wanted to learn programming (C and Perl), 3 wanted to run servers, and the rest were just interested in learning, which I admire.

However, I do insult Windows itself on a regular basis. After using Linux for close to 4 years now, everytime I go back to Windows is just a horrible experience. Comparing Windows design decisions to UNIX ones is just so hilarious. Drive letters (not fixed to my satisfaction in 2k/XP), Explorer''s numerous UI abominations, ridiculously long folder names (C:\Documents and Settings and Options and Files and Your Neighbors Cat\Andrew), ugly ass themes that can''t change (StyleXP is timed shareware and the free one broke with the latest service pack; why should I have to hack this anyway? f''ing ridiculous). Overall, Windows is now one huge joke for me so pardon me while I laugh my ass off at its incompetence.


#35 Witchcraven   Members   -  Reputation: 564

Posted 27 May 2003 - 01:04 PM

I am not happy with any OS at the moment. The closest thing is OS X, but aqua is not open source

#36 mr_dejao   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 27 May 2003 - 02:10 PM

I prefer Emacs when booted into Linux (curses version, not that X-Emacs crap ) and Ultra-Edit when booted into Windows. Both of them support the syntax highlighting I so enjoy

#37 Erunama   Members   -  Reputation: 168

Posted 27 May 2003 - 02:58 PM

Well, I am a big Notepad fan when using Windows, but recently I''ve been doing a lot of work with Linux, mostly with KWrite and vi (I''m starting to really like vi, especially when I get errors like ''KDEInit cannot launch KWrite'').

|.dev-c++.|.the gimp.|.seti@home.|.dbpoweramp.|.torn.|.=w=.|

#38 bastard2k5   Members   -  Reputation: 238

Posted 27 May 2003 - 03:46 PM

I generally tend to always come back to emacs, even after I try ide, or any other fancy coding environment, I will still tend to use emacs at some point during the course of my project. Although that could also be because 1. I hate vi 2. Our computers here that I ssh into run on solaris. So I will work remotely on CS machines to see if I can get away with something on CC(solaris C++ compiler). That and I don''t use windows on any of the computers I own. That and in spite of the steep learning curve, I have used it for about 1 year, and actually have come to grow fond of how evil it is.

#39 cmptrgear   Members   -  Reputation: 306

Posted 27 May 2003 - 04:04 PM

Its all about vi. I started using it last year and had a lot of roblems trying to figure out what the commands were but now I do all of my coding in vi. Word just cant do coding because it thinks everything is misspelled, I hate notepad and wordpad with a passion and edit just doesnt have enough features. At first I was skeptical about vi but now being able to delete, copy or paste multiple lines without having to use the mouse is a breeze. In fact I keep having problems where I treat word as vi and keep hitting esc to stop typing or i to insert text.

"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
--Voltaire

#40 Tron3k   Members   -  Reputation: 660

Posted 27 May 2003 - 05:05 PM

I can''t believe no one has mentioned NoteTab. It''s pretty useful.




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