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[java] Microsoft's new Java Competitor


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#1 Jerry Lynn   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 June 2000 - 09:49 AM

http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-2128454.html?tag=st.ne.1002.tgif.ni So what does everyone think?

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#2 Da Masta   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 June 2000 - 10:05 AM

I hate the name...I mean, come on...."c sharp"? It looks so out of place too... would you ever wanna tell somebody, "hey, i code in c/c++, assembly, pascal/delphi, java and c#"?

(I was gonna write an essay on how much the microsoft products have sucked, how much they do suck, and how much they will suck, but i''ll leave that to the rest of the posters.)

#3 joeG   Members   -  Reputation: 172

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Posted 22 June 2000 - 11:42 AM

Personally I''m not apprehensive about it in the least. I mean if it doesn''t turn out to be a Java killer than my skill sets are still mostly up to date. However if it is then who cares? Of course I would care if it only bests Java in a couple of things (and falls flat in others--i.e. platform compatibility). But I''m leaning towards the opinion that it will experience the same growing pains that Java did and by then Java will have gained enough of a userbase to ensure it''s livelihood for a long time while c# will be struggling for acceptance. In other words I''ll wait and see. I can learn a new language or two, because that''s what I''m going to be doing the next 5-7 years anyways, so I''m not worried about that. I''m just worried it will stink and still get acceptance over Java and we will all be forced to use something we don''t want to for development. On a brighter (or darker ) note, direct access to hardware sounds cool (but that brings up the topic of sandboxes. I think everyone''s comfortable with the current implementation now, so that might be a problem point for c#). Anyways, after trying to end this post several times and thinking of something else, I''ll call it quits here and let you all have a word in edgewise

joeG

#4 Jim_Ross   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 June 2000 - 05:12 AM

that is truly scary, not c# so much as the Common Language Runtime (CLR). It promises to be a real competion killer under the guise of uniformity. With a snap of thier fingers they can change it''s functionality and break other languages that run on it, making MS brands of C++ Java and Basic look like heros that can do more than other languages. Imagine a gauntlet like proving ground hiding on 90% of the computers out there. Everyone wants to push your code through it because "it''s the best, Microsoft made it to work with every language", but you know that it doesn''t handle function X & function Y like everything else, in fact, the way it handles functions X & Y could cause your program to crash. That would lead to people being skeptic about your proficiency as a programmer. Of course, you could avoid all this by just using Visual Studio, and paying through the nose for it. Mission Complete.

#5 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 24 June 2000 - 10:05 PM

What a bunch of bull! How many languages does Microsoft need? They''ve got their baby, Visual Basic, why not pump that up for the Web?. Is this an admittance that MFC and VB is a complete pile, a waste of programmer''s time? I thought ActiveX was going to be Microsoft''s solution to OO and the web. I mean come on, life is too short to learn all Microsofts languages and API''s. That''s why I love Java. It is well thought out and learning a new Java API is easy not fustrating. I say boycot C#, just because Microsoft has a horrible track record. They start Direct3D but then decide they want to go opengl with Fairenheit so end up with 2 mediaocre API''s not 1 good one. If they put all their energy into 1 language say VB, and one common Windows API it would be much better.

Also I very much agree with Jim the CLR is scary. I think they will use it to make Java run slow or buggy. And also make Visual Studio run faster then other compilers by cheating. I am now almost glad the Gov came down on MS. If I was a hacker I would break into their computers, delete the C# implementation code, then crash their network, for there actions against Java. Hey they started the war and I''m on the Java side!

#6 Icculus   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 June 2000 - 10:07 PM

Oops I guess it forgot my name there

#7 Altmann   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 June 2000 - 10:26 PM

What exactly is this CLR ? Is this some kind of IDL/COM with runtime ?

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#8 MadKeithV   Moderators   -  Reputation: 971

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Posted 24 June 2000 - 10:55 PM

quote:

While sources say C# will include several features apparently modeled on some of the most popular features of the Java programming language, Microsoft executives say the language is not a Java competitor. "This is not a response to Java," Goodhew said.



If Microsoft doesn''t want to profile it as a Java competitor, it won''t be a straight Java-competitor. Nomatter what the critics say.

quote:

The new language will offer features available in Java but not available in C or C++. The features include better security and "garbage collection," which tidies up computer memory used in a software program, Microsoft executives said.



Okay, is this the extent to which C# " mirrors Java? These are two features that everyone has been BEGGING to be put into commonly used languages like C and C++, for non-platform independent software. Pretty weak on the part of C/Net I must say. I don''t think I particularly mind garbage collection in a C++ - like compiler. As long as I can turn it off.
And better security? How many people here were flaming Microsoft about how lax their security with VBScript was, with the Lovebug fiasco etc. Now they do something about it, in a very drastic way, and hey presto, MORE flaming. I think it''s a good idea on their part.


CLR sounds to me as if it IS DCOM/ActiveX. They''ve been working toward that for a long time now, and having all of the core Windows functionality in DCOM will allow "All languages to have equal footing on Windows". Well, office type applications anyway, I don''t think we have to worry about it too much for games. (Although, DirectX could be a part of this CLR )


In short, I''m looking forward to seeing just exactly what this C-sharp thing is. It could be good, it could be bad, it could be indifferent. If it''s Microsoft''s way of combining VB''s ease of accessing COM objects, with C/C++''s way of good, structured, or even OO development, and Java''s security and ease-of-use, it could be a good language.
I think "platform independence" is probably nonexistent, unless they mean "will work on any Microsoft OS" ;-)


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#9 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1210

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Posted 29 June 2000 - 01:48 AM

I wonder if M$ will push the language so people will say "Oh how did your C/C++/C# implementation work?"

WHATS NEXT? ''C$''? ''C@''? ''C%''? ''C?''?

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#10 ManaSink   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 29 June 2000 - 02:28 AM

quote:
Original post by dwarfsoft
WHATS NEXT? 'C$'? 'C@'? 'C%'? 'C?'?



I was thinking Cb (C flat). Actually, it would probably be C-2001 or something stupid like that...

ManaSink


Edited by - ManaSink on June 29, 2000 9:29:13 AM

#11 MadKeithV   Moderators   -  Reputation: 971

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Posted 29 June 2000 - 02:33 AM

I''d call it D!

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ERROR: Your beta-version of Life1.0 has expired. Please upgrade to the full version. All important social functions will be disabled from now on.

#12 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1210

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Posted 29 June 2000 - 09:47 PM

I think that C++ should have been named D, Java should be E so I think they are up to F! But seeing as I think C# will be a flop, the next language can be F and C# can be CRAP. There should be a character for RAP eh?



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