Good guy/Bad guy

Blue*Omega · 2000-08-24T12:59:02

I''d like to post a simple question, to see what type of response I get more than anything, but also because I''m curious about what the "Gaming Community" thinks. What makes a "Bad Guy" a bad guy? Games have gone so much further than Mario Brothers where the bad guys were turtles and fireballs and the good guys grew when they ate ''shrooms, but years later with wonderfull games like Thief, Half-Life, Homeworld, etc. We still are clinging to the basic good guy / bad guy theme. NPC''s were a step in the right direction but they are always limited in what they can do and are never very usefull. Why is it that we are still confined to the basic theology that "Good guys have to win, bad guys have to die, and NPC''s are there for looks"? Has there ever been a game where the bad guys aren''t nessisarily bad? Imagine, an RPG where there is no good guy/bad guy. How would this work? How could you gain exeperience, etc? Say you are walking through a forest in which there is a troll camp. As you near the camp you are spotted by a troll scout who jumps in front of you and warns you not to go further. If you go around the camp you are left alone and everyones happy. If you refuse to heed his warning he attacks you and a battle begins. Does him attaking you make him a bad guy? He is only defending his home. We could take this a step further and negotiate with this scout. He allows you to pass though for some healing potions they need. You may even be able to set up regular trade with this camp of trolls. Now you have a new place to get supplies while away from a town. Suddenly these trolls are friends where they might have been enemies. My this is a long post! Please exuse my rambeling Anyways, the idea is: why not make a world where most units are neutral till provoked. Wolves attack only if they''re hungry or attacked. Dragons are lazy and shy but will defend thier cave with no mercy, elves are helpful but get medival on you if you defile thier forest. In this way you could get experience if needed by looking for trouble. I personally think this would make the game world more realistic than an "everyone and thier dog is out to get you" approach. What do you think? ----------------------------- Blue*Omega (Insert Witty Quote Here)

Game Design and Theory Game Design

Started by Blue*Omega August 21, 2000 06:50 PM

12 comments, last by Blue*Omega 23 years, 7 months ago

nicba

122

August 24, 2000 11:12 AM

The game "Blade Runner" did this perfectly in my opinion. You started with a clear goal: Find the evil androids and kill them.

But as you pieced together the puzzles you became in doubt. Differend NPC''s said differend things and suddently it seemed like the androids was perhaps not evil at all but just battleing for freedom and survival. You even became in doubt about the nature of the character you was playing: was he himself a human or an android?

And then ind the end you was free to choose either to fulfill your original goal and kill the androids or try to help them.

The game was made some time ago (1-2 years?) by Westwood. Apparently it never became much of a success as its very very cheap in the stores now (at least here in Denmark).

Regards

nicba

JMgamer88

122

August 24, 2000 12:42 PM

what if the evil was being evil but for a good cause (ie. Overseer) wouldn''t that make a good story evil w/ morals.

AtypicalAlex

122

August 24, 2000 12:51 PM

Since the dawn of entertainment the "good guy, bad guy" scheme has repeated endlessly. Don''t think that this was confined early games such as Mario for whatever reasons--movies, books, television, EVERYTHING from the time it started to the present has relied and a hero versus villain set-up. The most important question to ask is directed at you, Blue*Omega:

Why change it?

Just for the sake of being different? Because it would be "cool" to let the bad guys win or to have there be no bad guys at all? I say: Come up with your story/plot/gameplay/whatever BEFORE deciding it''s time to change some cliche (that actually is so broad and flexible that it CAN''T really be labeled as a cliche).

------------------------------
Changing the future of adventure gaming...
Atypical Interactive

------------------------------Changing the future of adventure gaming...Atypical Interactive

Dak Lozar

122

August 24, 2000 12:59 PM

I think that the reason so many games end up having this standard good/bad cliche is that from the moment we enter school we have this ideal placed in our minds. I go to school ''A'' and we hate school ''B'', ''C'' and ''D'' because we play them in basketball.

You have your favorite teams. Your from the USA and you don''t like the French, or your from England and you don''t like the French. On and on it goes... The sociology here is that we are constantly drawing lines that divide us. Some good, some bad. The other fact is that because these lines do exist, it is easier for a designer to incorporate them into their design.

There was another post recently, that discussed the ideal of breaking away from the known is difficult because players expect then norm.

I personally think that if you design a game that has "no sides" per se, you definately need to build the background story right. Explain why there are lines that divide... maybe to get the player sucked in you need to start with a world that was divided and explain why that world is no longer.

Dave "Dak Lozar" Loeser

Dave Dak Lozar Loeser
"Software Engineering is a race between the programmers, trying to make bigger and better fool-proof software, and the universe trying to make bigger fools. So far the Universe in winning."--anonymous

Good guy/Bad guy

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Good guy/Bad guy

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