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Trolls, orcs, goblins and $$


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#1 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:13 AM

Someone mentioned trolls can''t carry money, it''s unrealistic. But they sure can!

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#2 Knarkles   Members   -  Reputation: 271

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:15 AM

But spiders, rats, bats and snakes sure can''t. Or maybe they could carry a coin or a small pouch in their mouth.

-Jussi

#3 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:25 AM

Some animals collect small items of jewelery, stones or gold coins. It''s not unrealistic to kill a raven, and find a small gold coin in it''s nest? Other than that i agree with you.

#4 Knarkles   Members   -  Reputation: 271

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:27 AM

Yes, but is it realistic to find 30 gold coins from the body of a spider or rat (as in eg. ADOM and Ultima 9)?

-Jussi

#5 Devon   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:32 AM

??? why is this point even being raised?
how real should a game be, so real that players kill trolls at night, then have to get at least 3 hours sleep. Then wake up at the crack of dawn, go to the bakery and bake break, then after working for 4 days finally get paid 10 gold. That doesn't sound like fun does it? Well it's not and neither is running around chopping up evil monsters and animals only get to get a handful of blood and guts and no gold.
The question shouldn't be "how real should this game be?"
the question should be "will this game be fun to play?"




Edited by - Devon on August 23, 2000 8:45:10 AM

#6 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:43 AM

I''ve played Adom but not U9. Not its not realistic to find 30 gold coins rofl


#7 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 01:45 AM

HAHAHA devon the way you put it, makes the whole rpg must be realistic frenzy really seem as sad it is.

#8 Eck   Members   -  Reputation: 1717

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 03:54 AM

Just because a game is realistic, it does not mean it is boring. In a medieval game, if your current goal is to make a little cash. Do not go out hunting wild animals because you will not find it. If you encounter a wild animal, avoid it.

Later,
Eck

#9 Wavinator   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1605

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 08:59 AM

quote:
Original post by Devon

??? why is this point even being raised?



One word. Immersion. There''s a gamasutra article by Ernest Adams that talks about internal consistency, and it hits the nail right on the head. (He also wrote a great "letter from a dungeon" that''s along this line as well.)

Any time you''re playing a game and you''re reminded that it''s a game, you''re pulled out of the game. This doesn''t mean that the "kill things and voila! money pops out of them" mechanism shouldn''t be used, it should just be used more cleverly.

For instance, I''ve heard others on this board suggest bounties for wolf hides and such. Much better than killing a wolf and suddenly finding 150 gold pieces plus some plate mail. I mean, wtf?!?! It''s designer laziness, really...

I also think the younger your audience, or the less "into" the game world they are, the more you can pop money out of carcasses all day long. These people don''t care about the depth of the game world, and I''d wager that in this case they wouldn''t care about detailed characters, great plot, or abilities other than combat. Not a problem, really, just an observation...


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Just waiting for the mothership...

#10 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 03:51 PM

But don''t we get gold, armor and weapons from monster poop?

Whenever I go into an RPG, there are always lots of spare weapons and gold around, usually with a bunch of monsters hanging around. I never see anyone mining or smelting ore, so it''s not being dug out of the ground by normal NPCs.

There''s never any other adventurers going through the dungeons, so the stuff has to come from the monsters. Most monsters don''t use weapons or gold. There are plenty that can''t use the stuff lying around. They obviously aren''t carrying it externally since you would see that a spider is dragging around plate mail. It only appears when the beastie gets splattered, which implies some sort of internal storage.

All of which leads me to think that the stuff is a biological byproduct of the monsters, the way spice is a biological byproduct of the worms in Dune.

It''s monster poop!

#11 Wavinator   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1605

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 07:21 PM

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

But don''t we get gold, armor and weapons from monster poop?




LOL!!! Yes, refined monster poop!

As others have noted, it would be so much more enjoyable if this stuff looked like it belonged there... it''s not a realism fetish, it''s a consistency issue...


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Just waiting for the mothership...

#12 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 08:47 PM

The idea of having money drop from corpses is about having a reward system. You are rewarded for your efforts, just like you in some questionaire talkshows are rewarded furry pets and crap. It''s about BEHAVIORISM something you americans know about from your school system. Do something good, encourage it, do something bad smack down on it.

#13 Wavinator   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1605

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 09:50 PM

And do you mean to tell me that that is the best we can do? Hit a spider nine times and gold coins come flying out of his arse!?!?

There are better solutions, with the same lovely BEHAVIORISM, that are also more immersive.

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Just waiting for the mothership...

#14 Paul Cunningham   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 10:28 PM

How about starting the game with a powerful character that eats a lot and has to go around killing everything to get his feed. -Character maintainance-

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

#15 Knarkles   Members   -  Reputation: 271

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Posted 23 August 2000 - 10:30 PM

Or what about a character with leprosy, who must find glue to fix his/her dropping limbs?

-Jussi

#16 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 August 2000 - 04:30 AM

haha wavinator you are so funny

#17 Facehat   Members   -  Reputation: 696

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Posted 24 August 2000 - 05:02 AM

What bothers me is that often times monsters are carrying around these powerful weapons, yet they don''t use them. If some orc has a powerful sword, why *wouldn''t* they use it?

#18 Kylotan   Moderators   -  Reputation: 3329

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Posted 24 August 2000 - 05:06 AM

quote:
Original post by Wavinator

And do you mean to tell me that that is the best we can do? Hit a spider nine times and gold coins come flying out of his arse!?!?


Heh, sounds more fun than, but very similar to, a lot of those fruit machines people play... they''re pretty popular too



#19 Spyder   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 24 August 2000 - 08:38 PM

For those of you that really get upset about having gold flying out of a rats rear, have you tried everquest? You wont'' find much gold on animals, but you will find fur, eggs, claws and other natural stuff to exchange for your precious gold.

#20 Facehat   Members   -  Reputation: 696

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Posted 25 August 2000 - 02:32 AM

Actually, one thing that has always bothered me about everquest is how you''re actually able to sell those items. I really doubt anyone would want a spider''s leg .




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