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## Trolls, orcs, goblins and 

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### #21Wavinator  Moderators

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Posted 25 August 2000 - 10:10 AM

Actually, spiders legs go along with the eye of newt, hair of tortoise (or whatever) motif in witch and warlock spells. So you could make an economy of magic based on these things.

But I agree that in any other setting they''d be in and of themselves worthless unless they were attached to some bounty system (inwhich the game government is paying folks to get rid of a nuisance).

... errr, unless they''re some weird yuppie collector item, as well... "Giant Red Spider Leg, original, North Mountains, 50,000 gp..."

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### #22DungeonMaster  Members

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Posted 25 August 2000 - 11:08 AM

I think it would be time for a game where you are rewarded for not killing (unless you are hungry, and then eating should be a good reward).
Moreover is money the only way of rewarding the player ? Granted in some games you get stuff, but then you can only sell it most of the time.
I think rewards should be in the emotional field rather than in the economic field.
Money is only needed for the survival of the player, so give him just enough that he dont feels hungry and can buy a little stuff.

### #23Paul Cunningham  Members

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Posted 26 August 2000 - 04:23 AM

I totally agree with DungeonMaster here. Money is only in the game to allow the player to interact. It''s shouldn''t be relied upon for rewards. I find mayself that the best rewards or well thought out locations in the games or an enemy that has some character.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

### #24Wavinator  Moderators

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Posted 26 August 2000 - 08:36 AM

You know, I''m really interested in this. It seems money is a perfect, if somewhat unsatisfying reward, because it''s so easy to fit into an economic model of advancement (similar to XP). If you don''t use money, how do you create a leveling up economy?

I can see setting hidden values that give you access to new areas or badguys. But the way the economy works in the more hack&slash oriented RPGs, you advance by doing something in an incremental fashion (even if it is goblin genocide).

Could you make access to new areas or badguys scalable in this same fashion? Maybe I''m imagination challenged this morn, but I don''t see how...

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### #25 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests

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Posted 26 August 2000 - 04:13 PM

Example: Quest is to clear out the dwarven mine. Player goes in and kills a lot of giant spiders, no gold poop. After the spiders are dead, the locals can start minimg again. Better equipment becomes available shortly thereafter due to increased supply of iron ore. Prices of previous low-quality items goes down as they are replaced in the shops by high-quality items.

Hero also gets a small bounty from the local merchants. Oh, and at the bottom of the mine the hero finds evidence that the spider eggs were planted there in the first place by rival kingdom X. Hero now has a new quest to find who planted the spider eggs.

Other possibilities - the hero builds up a reputation stat. With a higher reputation, NPCs seek the hero''s help for tougher situations.

This makes more sense to me than shopkeepers that have an endless supply of gold, but still try and charge the hero an arm and a leg even after the hero has saved their butts.

### #26dwarfsoft  Members

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Posted 26 August 2000 - 04:16 PM

And if you are just slaying wolves out in the wild, skin them and sell their hides, they don''t carry gold!

-Chris Bennett ("Insanity" of Dwarfsoft)

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### #27DungeonMaster  Members

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Posted 27 August 2000 - 03:48 AM

Skinning wolves all day long what a boring day. Even working as a clerk adding collumns seems more interesting to me, or at least less digusting.
I dont want money, I want epic, emotions, travels and wonders to behold. Cities with walls of nacre, fountains of wine.
What''s heroic in skinning wolves ? No saving your ass from bandits while going to see the fabulous lady of the lake, try to ask a favor from the faeries from Castle Thripshey, this is what I would like to do.
Killing the dragon, impossible, but trying to fetch the lost hammer of Tharkor which is in its hoard ?
All this killing tends to gets on my nerves. When I want to kill I play Quake or whatever fast-paced action game.
Ok for eliminating the grand vizir tyranizing the whole country, but why should I kill all his guards. If i''m smart i will try to sneak on him, for I stand no chance against them. Maybe a little revolution...
Ok lets stop killing goblins, but lets stop killing aimlessly as well. To kill is an action which should be weighted carefully!
Unless you are an assassin or pirate of course

### #28Wavinator  Moderators

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Posted 27 August 2000 - 08:10 AM

quote:
Original post by DungeonMaster

All this killing tends to gets on my nerves. When I want to kill I play Quake or whatever fast-paced action game.
Ok for eliminating the grand vizir tyranizing the whole country, but why should I kill all his guards. If i'm smart i will try to sneak on him, for I stand no chance against them. Maybe a little revolution...
Ok lets stop killing goblins, but lets stop killing aimlessly as well. To kill is an action which should be weighted carefully!
Unless you are an assassin or pirate of course

I agree, but the problem is in coming up with a repeatable, sustainable, idealy replayable substitute. Combat's so overused not only because some designers are lazy, but because it's such a good system. It scales well. It's repeatable. It can evoke fear, and agression, and excitement, and a host of other emotions. It's a great system!

With sneaking and revolution and the other things you've proposed, we need alternate systems. There's got to be the mechanics and stuff that supports the sneaking. Or the rabble rousing. Or the backstabbing and betrayal. I think when you have all of this, then add combat, you've got a dynamite roleplaying experience because problems can be attacked from multiple angles.

Then you don't really need gold coins dropping outta' bodies, because the other systems take the place of economics...

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Edited by - Wavinator on August 27, 2000 3:12:32 PM

### #29Wavinator  Moderators

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Posted 27 August 2000 - 08:24 AM

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Example: Quest is to clear out the dwarven mine. Player goes in and kills a lot of giant spiders, no gold poop. After the spiders are dead, the locals can start minimg again. Better equipment becomes available shortly thereafter due to increased supply of iron ore. Prices of previous low-quality items goes down as they are replaced in the shops by high-quality items.

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!!!!!!! Very, very nice!!!!

Now this is a rockin'' example of a potential system! The mine is the creator of the monsters, and provides resources. The town is poor without it, and prices are affected. If you could handle this similar to how SimCity handles it, rather than hard scripting, it would make it much more flexible and logical.

To advance, maybe you could find a new mine. Or lure the spiders out rather than kill them. Either way, no gold poop.

quote:

Hero also gets a small bounty from the local merchants. Oh, and at the bottom of the mine the hero finds evidence that the spider eggs were planted there in the first place by rival kingdom X. Hero now has a new quest to find who planted the spider eggs.

Excellent. I can see designing and coding "evidence" inventory items that lead to other NPCs, places, etc. They could be generalized and made vague in order to be comprehensive.

quote:

Other possibilities - the hero builds up a reputation stat. With a higher reputation, NPCs seek the hero''s help for tougher situations.

This makes more sense to me than shopkeepers that have an endless supply of gold, but still try and charge the hero an arm and a leg even after the hero has saved their butts.

Yes, if you put it into a realistic system and show the player how it works, it''s much more sensible and understandable. It also makes the world less mercenary, and maybe then you''ll get to feel more heroic.

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