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Yes, I'm another newbie. Please help!


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#1 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 06 December 1999 - 11:08 PM

First of all, I've decided that this forum will be my home from now on for developing games, so you'll see me around quite a bit. Right, on with my query...

Basically, I'm starting from scratch...totally from scratch. What I need to know, is what programs I should get, and what documentation is good. Basically step by step instructions of how to get started. I need reccomendations on C++ Compilers (they need to be free), 3D packages (again free, if there are such things as free 3D packages), good 3D engines (again free) and good documentation sources. I'm a good learner, and want to learn. I know many of you will be thinking I'm mad skipping 2D and going straight for 3D, but I always throw myself into the deep end, and work with the aftermath I'll probably end up starting with 2D, but in the mean time I'd just like a go at 3D. I'm downloading the Direct X 7 SDK right now, and that's the only thing I know that I need. Everything else, I need help with. Suggestions, anyone?

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#2 Gromit   Members   -  Reputation: 144

Posted 28 November 1999 - 06:31 AM

I don't think that starting out doing 3d games is realistic. Stick with 2d games. Also, no one is going to just give you everything, you are just going to have to read everything here http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/ before you ask any questions. Sorry if I sound mean, but this is one of the best places to learn everything you are going to need to know before you start posting for help.

#3 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 28 November 1999 - 06:47 AM

I'm reading it right now; sorry if it seemed lazy of me asking right out. If I've more questions after I'm done, I'll be back. thanks

#4 Facehat   Members   -  Reputation: 696

Posted 28 November 1999 - 09:01 AM

I know that you probably have your mind made up, but let me make this suggestion: Don't make a 3D game until you have finished a 2D one. Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't study and learn 3D programming -- nothing wrong with that. Go ahead and code up little test apps and whatever you like.

But what you'll find when doing 3D programming is that it's not drawing triangles or transforming objects which is the tough part -- it's the design issues you'll face. You'll find it much easier to finish your 3D game if you've actually finished a 2D one first because you will have learned a lot about how to code games.

So my suggestion is this: learn all you can about whatever subjects you like -- even if there a bit above your head at this point. Just don't commit yourself to making anything but simple games to start with. You'll thak yourself later .

--TheGoop


#5 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 28 November 1999 - 09:55 AM

Thanks for the tip; I read through a guide on this site as to what games you should try to program to start off with, and after the advice in there, I'll probably start off with Tetris. I still want to toy around with 3D though; even just getting a box up that I can maybe manipulate would be good. I just love messing around with 3D packages (the shareware versions, anyway) and my head is buzzing with ideas for 3D games. But I will aim low to begin with. I got myslef a copy of turbo C, and from a free library, a book on learning C++. It's first lesson is the "Hello World!" program, but I'm already having a bit of aproblem. It concerns the "#include " command. It can't find the file when I try to compile. all the include files are in a folder labled Include, but when I move the iostream.h file into the directory that the program is located in, it can open the iostream.h file, but then can't open the mem.h file. When I move the mem.h file into the directory where the program is located as with the iostream.h file, it makes no difference. I looked through the help files on this, but couldn't find anything on it. Any ideas?

#6 foofightr   Members   -  Reputation: 130

Posted 28 November 1999 - 01:19 PM

I'm going to assume certain things here, so if I'm making wrong assumptions, I'm sorry.

I'm assuming you're using this method:

code:

#include "iostream.h"


the quotation marks tell the preprocessor to look in the current directory for the file, and if it can't find it, it aborts. Almost all recent compilers take this one step further and also search the \include directory, but it looks like you have an old compiler so it doesn't search there.

The solution is to enclose the filename in angle brackets < and >, but make SURE you don't put spaces before or after the filename. This will not work:

code:

#include < iostream.h >


and this will work:
code:

#include < iostream.h>


(UBB software treats this as an HTML tag, so I couldn't write it as I normally would because it would erase it. In your code, don't leave spaces around the filename)

The rule of thumb is when you're using the compiler's header files, use < > because that's where they're located, and when you're including your own headers, use " " because they're usually in the working directory.

Hope that helps.

[This message has been edited by foofightr (edited November 28, 1999).]


#7 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 29 November 1999 - 08:07 AM

Hmmmm....it didn't work. Could my compiler be messed up?

On that note, I'm thinking of getting the academic version of Visual Basic 6.0, as I heard its easier to use. There are 3 versions, however, Enterprise, Professional, and Standard (I think). Professional looks to be the best, because the upgrade options seem good, but what which one would you recommend?

In the mean time I'll struggle on with TurboC. If anyone has a solution to my problem, please help!


#8 Kyle Radue   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 29 November 1999 - 08:23 AM

This is just a shot in the dark, but double-check that the file you are trying to compile has a .cpp extension, not a .c extension. A (slightly) different compiler is used for c++ code than c code.

#9 BrentP4   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 29 November 1999 - 08:37 AM

I am used to programming with Borland.(what I learned in school) I just bought Visual C++ 6.0 Standard for $50....after a $50 rebate. I knw that if you choose this compiler...it will be a lot easier to get help...and also....DirectX SDK is aimed toward the visual products. Standard edition would be fine for you i think. ALl you really need is the compiler.(well....for now anyways) The enviroment isn't hard to learn(though i do prefer Borland) If money is a problem (guessing, because you want everything free) Just ask for it for christmas. Any graphics programs you would need... Just basic paint...for now anyways...if you want a free 3d program....Truespace version 1.0 has been released freely....legally....Good luck...And never stop asking questions. The only dumb one is the one which hasn't been asked. My biggest problems with coding is just setting up the compiler. I had a friend at RedStorm help me with that....I also recommend Lamothe's book ....his new one....Windows Game Programming Gurus book...(His rehash of his older book) ....bout 40 dollars...It really helps with learning directx, and windows fundamentals.

[This message has been edited by BrentP4 (edited November 29, 1999).]


#10 crazy166   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 29 November 1999 - 09:15 AM

When I first decided to start programming games, I also needed everything to be "free". So what I would do is find a book (e.g. Teach yourself games, c++, etc.). Most of these books come with free compilers, though older versions. Up until recently I was using Visual C++ 4.2 Standard edition that I got "free". These packages rarely cost more than $30-$40, and MSVC 4 continues to work with DirectX7.
As far as "free" graphics, I got a limited edition of Adobe Photoshop "free" with my new CD burner. This program is great for someone like me to make mediocre graphics look (at best) decent.
Good luck!

#11 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 29 November 1999 - 10:20 AM

Thanks to you all for your comments;

Kyle - I check the file extensions, but still nothing. Could it be anything else?

Brent & Crazy - Thanks for the tips I'll be sure to look up that free version off Truespace; I've heard good things about the program, and even if it's not very powerful it'll be a good start. AS for Visual C++ 6.0, I just found out that academic discounts are only available in the US...at least if your buying from Microsofts Website I'll probably still get it, but I'm just wondering: have microsoft released any of their Visual C++ as freeware? Like earlier versions of the program?

As for books, I found a free "Learn C++ in 21 days" from an online library, and am following it to start with. Once I get a bit of cash, i'll invest in some more game specific ones

Oh, and about 3D engines; I saw some available for download from this site, but can anyone reccomend one? There is no ratings on them, so it's hard to tell which one is the most stable, best performer etc. Thanks...

[This message has been edited by Retrep (edited November 29, 1999).]


#12 Facehat   Members   -  Reputation: 696

Posted 29 November 1999 - 11:55 AM

Heres a guess: perhaps your compiler doesn't support C++, only C. I say this because as far as I know iostream.h is part of the c++ library, but *not* the c library.

Just a guess though.

--TheGoop


#13 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 30 November 1999 - 07:16 AM

I'll get back to you on that; as far as I know it's a C++ compiler...afterall the library containing "iostream.h" came with it. I'll check for sure though.

#14 Gromit   Members   -  Reputation: 144

Posted 30 November 1999 - 09:34 AM

Didn't you say that you moved the iostream.h file into your program directory. You don't have to do that at all. When a file is in the include directory you use the form < file name >. When the file is not in the include directory you have to use the form " file name ". The last one only works if the file is in the same directory as your program that you are compiling. If it is not then you have to include the pathname to that file.

I hope I read you right. If not then disregard this post.

Good luck to you.


#15 Gromit   Members   -  Reputation: 144

Posted 30 November 1999 - 09:36 AM

Did they make a Turbo C or is there only a Turbo C++. I have only seen the latter. What version number is it? Maybe this will help find your problem.

#16 Retrep   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 30 November 1999 - 11:48 AM

Gromit - Thanks for th help, but I had already tried that an it didn't work

The only clue as to the version I have is that it is "Turbo C++". That's all I can find on that....it's been an age since I downloaded it, so you'll have to excuse me if I can't remember the exact version


#17 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

Posted 30 November 1999 - 09:22 PM

In case you still want to check for free compilers, I know borland recently released a bunch of their old stuff.

You should find it somewhere on this site http://community.borland.com


Good luck


#18 rperkins   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 01 December 1999 - 03:37 AM

I'm not sure how the compiler options are on that one but you might want to check the include path. It should point at the directory where the .h files live. Just a thought.

#19 Just6979   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 06 December 1999 - 08:03 PM

one of the best free compilers (and the one i use when not doing windows work) for the PC is DJGPP. is creates protected-mode DOS programs and is fully POSIX compliant (meaning it behaves _exactly_ like the GNU programs you find on Unix systems). for games, check out Allegro.

you can get DJGPP at http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/ you can also get the basic Allegro package here.

-Justin

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#20 DerekSaw   Members   -  Reputation: 243

Posted 06 December 1999 - 11:08 PM

Where is your Turbo C++? By default, it's under C:\TC, so the include files should be in C:\TC\INCLUDE, and lib files in C:\TC\LIB.

Goto [Options|Directories] menu and check the content of 'Include Directories' and 'Library Directories' -- they should be like the above (by default).





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