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Going to post your game idea? Read this first

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#1 boolean   Members   -  Reputation: 1714

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 01:30 AM

So you have an amazing original idea for a game that is going to blow the world away? That’s good. The gaming community always needs new up and coming talent. Now, you’ve probably got that game idea all worked out in your head, and eager to see what other people think about it. So you’ve found this forum and are about to write a post asking people what they think of your game…Well, before you do, you should be aware of something: There is a pretty high chance you will be flamed and not get the responses you want. Now, this is nothing to do with the Gamedev community being mean, or anything to do with you personally. It's probably got to do with the way you are writing your post. If you are serious about getting feedback from people about your idea, following the guidelines below will help you with this. If you don’t want to read the entire post, just read the parts in bold

++Stage 1. Before you post++

1. Don’t post your new game idea if it is a MMORPG, unless your idea is purely theoretical, in which case it should be made abundantly clear at the very start. The reason being unless you are a millionaire or in charge of a very large gaming company, you are NOT going to make that game without massive funding. Even if you are very passionate about your idea, no one will take you seriously until you have proof you have the hardware to make it happen. No matter how good your idea is, no-one will take you seriously, and you wont gain respect. 2. Think about what section of your game you are wanting feedback on in particular, and just focus on that one part for now A lot of posts are based on simply ideas people have had, and are looking for feedback. At best, all they will get for a reply is ‘yep, that could make a good game’. Not much more than that. Try to make sure that you are being specific on what section of the game you want advice on, and you will be much better off. For example, if you had an idea for an amazing space trading game, don’t just say ‘you can fly around and trade with millions of NPC’s on millions of planets’, start of small. Ask ‘If you were playing a huge space trading sim, what aspects of planetary visit would you find crucial to make a game feel gigantic but hardware realistic?’ 3. Remember: This forum is flooded with people who will never complete their project. If members suspect you are one of these people, they will probably not spend time giving you feedback.

++Stage 2: The post itself++

1. Take your time to write a good post. No one will take you seriously if you post if it consist of ‘OMG! I AM SO l33T! My idea is awesome and perfect and you will all play it!!!!1. Try to act as mature as possible, and spend a good amount of time writing it. After you have written it, reread it, and then reread it again. Don’t rush, it shows through your writing, and just makes you look unprofessional. 2. Be careful what the title of you post is. I know you are trying to attract as many people to read your post as possible, but calling it ‘WHOAH! BEST GAME IDEA EVER! READ ME MORON!!’ will give people the wrong mindset about you (ie. A 12yr old immature kid). Just say something simple like ‘Space trader sim: Feedback appreciated’. 3. If possible, include screenshots of your game. This is possibly the best thing you can do to get positive feedback. People will be much more willing to post feedback if they feel that you may actually finish this project. 4. If also possible, include what language you are using to code, what experience you have had, and links to past projects. 5. Use formatting to make large posts easy to read Nothing is more of a turnoff when reading large posts than one huge paragraph with no breaks or formatting. Get used to splitting your post into paragraphs, use the Bold or Header tags to make things easier to read. Most members are already pressed for time as it is, and you dont want them to go to your post only to click the back button right after simply because it so hard to read.

++Stage 3: After you post++

1. If people don’t respond favourably to your idea, for heavens sake, don’t flame them for not liking it. Stay as mature as possible, and if they say ‘Bah, visiting planets in space traders sucks big time’, simply say ‘what part about visiting planets dont you like’. Remember, if you seriously want feedback, you’ll do everything possible to keep your post on track, and wont take anything personally. If someone really is being an ass, the mods will do something about it; that’s what they are there for. 2. If your post fails to get replies, don’t post a slightly amended version 2 days later. This applies to all of Gamedev really, but if you’ve changed the name of one character, don’t post the entire thing again. Tricking people into reading the same post over and over again isn’t going to make you or your post popular.

++Other general tips++

1. Never post the same post in more that one forum 2. Don’t post in the first hour you join up with Gamedev. Read some posts from Wavinator or other respected members and take note how they write. 3. Don’t use l33t speak. Ever. 4. ALWAYS run a spell check through your post. Bad spelling can be what separates a good post from one that just starts a grammar-war (thanks 'Ra' for suggesting this one) 5. The following are some ideal examples of posting: Wavinator: Item creation --- Concept creation? (RPG) Wavinator: Battling Agoraphobia Acoustica : Preliminary Design Treatment - Feedback Requested I am looking for feedback to help make this a better guide, so if you have suggestions on what to change, please let me know. [Edit] Added some example links at the bottom. [Edited by - boolean on October 2, 2004 9:07:37 PM]

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#2 evolutional   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1069

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 03:10 AM

[quote]
Quote:
Original post by boolean
Don’t post in the first hour you join up with Gamedev


I hate to say it, but the majority of the people this post is targetted at will not read it simply because they *do* post in the first hour of joining and that it's been mentiond before (several times, I recall) that people simply don't take time to familiarise themselves with the site and/or community before rushing in with their first post.

Quote:
Original post by boolean
Read some posts from Wavinator or other respected members and take note how they write.


For the record, I feel that Wavinator's 'feedback required' threads are the perfect example of how to approach the subject. They show evidence that he's thought about it at length and in several ways, he's already decided on the main focus of the feature idea and often just wants to bounce it off the community to tidy up the finer points. Each post also seems to focus around one particular aspect of the game and isn't just "Here's my game idea - feedback please"

Perhaps in your post you could put in something like that, the reasons why they should look at such threads.

I'm also thinking that in the most relevant FAQ there should be a bunch of right and wrong ways to ask a question or request feedback on an idea eg:

Bad - I have this cool idea for a game where you play a guy with a gun that kills lots of things and I want power ups which power ups do you think are best 4 my game k thanks

Good - I wish to ask a little feedback on the powerups my FPS game should have. So far I have:

- Railgun: It's fast, accurate, long ranged but ammo is hard to find and it has a long reload time
- Shotgun: Short ranged weapon, inaccurate but has plenty of ammo in the game
- UberGun XXI: Causes a small singularity to open which causes the very quantum fabric of the local space to break down. Kills everything in sight, only one in the game, can only be used once but is highly unstable and the effect isn't predictable.


Also, people should be able to accept constructive criticsm. The 'quality' of feedback to posts has increased since the ratings system, but some people do flame anonymously and worse, if the original poster's idea is criticsed they rate down the person offering the criticsm (even if it's not a flame).

Finally, people should remember that we all have at least ten ideas of our own so don't be suprised if we're not as enthusiastic about them as you are ;)

That turned into a long post [smile]

#3 boolean   Members   -  Reputation: 1714

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 12:04 PM

Theres some really good pointers there Evo.

I do agree on the 'posting in the first hour' syndrome, and I cant see much of a way to stop people from doing that.

You made some really good points in your post. I am hoping that if enough people reply with tips of thier own, I can edit my post and do a....well....a version upgrade of the post. [smile]



#4 Run_The_Shadows   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 634

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 06:01 PM



#5 Chman_a11w   Members   -  Reputation: 128

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 06:51 PM

It's a good post ! Why not making it stiky ?

Chman

#6 Way Walker   Members   -  Reputation: 744

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 07:04 PM

Quote:
Original post by boolean
I do agree on the 'posting in the first hour' syndrome, and I cant see much of a way to stop people from doing that.


Maybe by enforcing it? Not directly as in checking if they have been a member for at least an hour. Hide it in one of those "You will get an e-mail, in the e-mail will be a password. Come back with that password." registration things. It's fairly standard procedure, and then, just send the e-mail out an hour after registration. The e-mail could contain something like what you wrote and "hidden" (i.e. not "PASSWORD: XXXXXXXX") in there would be the password, so they have to read it somewhat rather than just scanning for "PASSWORD".

Anyway, I always thought it was proper netiquette to both read the FAQ or at least know what it contains (though some of the FAQ's on this site and elsewhere leave much to be desired...), and to "lurk" for at least a month before posting (some suggest longer, but I think a month is a good balance).

Hmm... maybe sticking new comers in a kiddie pool or moderated board (only feasible if the vast majority of posts are not from new comers, which I doubt is the case). This could be another way of enforcing the "lurk before you post" rule and would go well with a policy of "No anonymous posters" (which has its own pros and cons).

#7 Ainokea   Members   -  Reputation: 435

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 07:24 PM

this should be sticked

#8 stormrunner   Members   -  Reputation: 720

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 07:56 PM

boolean, i applaud you for writing this post. it actually *embarrased grin* persuaded me to think a little more about my own design ( i was going to post it when i saw this), and i came up with the *gasp* surprising conclusion that my question did not fit the criteria. it didn't violate the basics, but the level of thoroughness(detail) needed to be redone. see, even complete retards can benefit [grin]. but then, i actually read this . . .
Quote:

i hate to say it, but the majority of the people this post is
targetted at will not read it

theres the kicker. append "before they post". not much to be done about that, except try to ensure theres not a second uninformed post.
Quote:
Hmm... maybe sticking new comers in a kiddie pool or moderated board (only feasible if the vast majority of posts are not from new comers, which I doubt is the case).

a kiddie pool ?!!
i strongly object to this.
what about those who aren't new to gamedev, who were deep cover "lurkers" if you will, but have just not registered earlier because they're too lazy, or *sigh* because they have amnesia every other day and can't remember their passwords. although i suppose since i'm the only one in the latter, i justly deserve the kiddie pool.
- stormrunner

#9 Sandman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 2136

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 12:24 AM

Quote:
Original post by wannabe 1337
this should be sticked


Agreed.

#10 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19072

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 03:45 AM

Although posts should contain enough relevent information to stimulate a good discussion of the ideas at hand, posts should be kept concise and to the point. Longer posts should use some sort of formatting that aids readers (such as the important parts being bold as in your own post) to sort through the information, and of course, the usual usage of paragraphs, etc should be used.

#11 Way Walker   Members   -  Reputation: 744

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 05:31 AM

Quote:
Original post by stormrunner
a kiddie pool ?!!
i strongly object to this.


I'm a little hesitant to respond now that this thread has become sticky, but I'd like to say that that wasn't an idea I'd thought out, merely a first suggestion that came to my mind. The problem with most "make people do the right thing" schemes is that they're a hinderance to those who would do the right thing anyway. Always trade offs, and I doubt the kiddie pool is worth the hassle.

#12 boolean   Members   -  Reputation: 1714

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 10:30 PM

Quote:
Original post by Kazgoroth
Longer posts should use some sort of formatting that aids readers (such as the important parts being bold as in your own post) to sort through the information, and of course, the usual usage of paragraphs, etc should be used.


Ah, good point, I didnt think of that one.

*Guide Updated*

#13 knowledge   Members   -  Reputation: 174

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 02:23 AM

All I can say is "amen!" You hit every point squarely and I can't think of anything else you need to say. Thank you for this, hopefully it will prevent some bad posts.

#14 thelurch   Members   -  Reputation: 156

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 06:17 AM

Quote:
Original post by Way Walker

Maybe by enforcing it? Not directly as in checking if they have been a member for at least an hour ... maybe sticking new comers in a kiddie pool or moderated board


I agree with stormrunner on this. I was a regular at gamedev for almost three months before I registered, and the only reason I registered was becuase I finally had something to post.

Best that can be hoped is to reduce the number of keyboard happy posters, I guess.
---------------------------------------------------There are two things he who seeks wisdom must understand...Love... and Wudan!

#15 Gametaku   Members   -  Reputation: 162

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:17 PM

Quote:
Original post by thelurch
Quote:
Original post by Way Walker

Maybe by enforcing it? Not directly as in checking if they have been a member for at least an hour ... maybe sticking new comers in a kiddie pool or moderated board


I agree with stormrunner on this. I was a regular at gamedev for almost three months before I registered, and the only reason I registered was becuase I finally had something to post.

Best that can be hoped is to reduce the number of keyboard happy posters, I guess.


Same here, I registred only after lurking for a while and reading anything relevent I could fine, on the boards and in the Varrious sections of gamedev, and other sites. So when I regestred I actuly had done my research and making me wait an hour would of just pissed me off and I would of left. As this is the premire game development site I might of not continued into the programming path I am on and thus would be doing something else less enjoyable. The few post that are from newbies are not worth turning serious people away.
Just me

#16 Way Walker   Members   -  Reputation: 744

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 01:40 PM

Quote:
Original post by gamegod3001
Same here, I registred only after lurking for a while and reading anything relevent I could fine, on the boards and in the Varrious sections of gamedev, and other sites. So when I regestred I actuly had done my research and making me wait an hour would of just pissed me off and I would of left. As this is the premire game development site I might of not continued into the programming path I am on and thus would be doing something else less enjoyable. The few post that are from newbies are not worth turning serious people away.


Hmm... people still disagreeing even after I mentioned my own issues with it. Anyway, I don't think my proposal was quite as disagreeable as you seem to think. It's fairly standard procedure to do the "You'll get an e-mail with your password" and, in my experience, these typically don't arrive immediately, anyway. Put in an hour delay and nobody would be any the wiser.

Or maybe I'm just too laid back and not so easily discouraged from something I enjoy?

#17 Gametaku   Members   -  Reputation: 162

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 05:00 PM

Quote:
Original post by Way Walker
Quote:
Original post by gamegod3001
Same here, I registred only after lurking for a while and reading anything relevent I could fine, on the boards and in the Varrious sections of gamedev, and other sites. So when I regestred I actuly had done my research and making me wait an hour would of just pissed me off and I would of left. As this is the premire game development site I might of not continued into the programming path I am on and thus would be doing something else less enjoyable. The few post that are from newbies are not worth turning serious people away.


Hmm... people still disagreeing even after I mentioned my own issues with it. Anyway, I don't think my proposal was quite as disagreeable as you seem to think. It's fairly standard procedure to do the "You'll get an e-mail with your password" and, in my experience, these typically don't arrive immediately, anyway. Put in an hour delay and nobody would be any the wiser.

Or maybe I'm just too laid back and not so easily discouraged from something I enjoy?


An hour is a long time to wait for an email with your password. The longest I ever waited for a password was 5 minuites. Anyways do you think that if someone didn't look around prior to regestration they would do so even if they have to wait? In the end all a waiting system would do is annoy people, newbes would still post their questions that could be answered by the the FAQ, or other resource readlily avaliable.

#18 funvill   Members   -  Reputation: 190

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 07:28 PM

Quote:
Original post by gamegod3001
Quote:
Original post by Way Walker
Quote:
Original post by gamegod3001
Same here, I registred only after lurking for a while and reading anything relevent I could fine, on the boards and in the Varrious sections of gamedev, and other sites. So when I regestred I actuly had done my research and making me wait an hour would of just pissed me off and I would of left. As this is the premire game development site I might of not continued into the programming path I am on and thus would be doing something else less enjoyable. The few post that are from newbies are not worth turning serious people away.


Hmm... people still disagreeing even after I mentioned my own issues with it. Anyway, I don't think my proposal was quite as disagreeable as you seem to think. It's fairly standard procedure to do the "You'll get an e-mail with your password" and, in my experience, these typically don't arrive immediately, anyway. Put in an hour delay and nobody would be any the wiser.

Or maybe I'm just too laid back and not so easily discouraged from something I enjoy?


An hour is a long time to wait for an email with your password. The longest I ever waited for a password was 5 minuites. Anyways do you think that if someone didn't look around prior to regestration they would do so even if they have to wait? In the end all a waiting system would do is annoy people, newbes would still post their questions that could be answered by the the FAQ, or other resource readlily avaliable.


When i first came here 2 years ago I came here for help. After taking a quick look thou the most recent posts i made my post asked my question that has been asked dozens of times before, got an answer to my question with in 10 min.

the reason that i came to GameDev is for help, if i had to wait an hr for help then i would have gone some where else.

i disagree with having any type of waiting period for newbie.
We where all newbie once upon a time.
====Funvill[Home|Tiny xml|Boost|Wiki|STL]====================

#19 DEVLiN   Members   -  Reputation: 203

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 07:53 PM

Great post, just fix the spelling error: " ‘what part about visiting planets done you like’. " and it's tip-top :)

Maybe send out a link to this thread with the registration confirmation? ( or use this text before the activation of an account? )

#20 boolean   Members   -  Reputation: 1714

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 10:35 PM

Quote:
Original post by DEVLiN
just fix the spelling error: " ‘what part about visiting planets done you like’.


Thanks for that, didnt see it.

*Guide updated*






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