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[java] Best Java development tool


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#1 GunnarSteinn   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 10:47 AM

What is the best java development tool? I´m used to Visual C++ but have to program in Java for few months. What should I get?

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#2 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 11:32 AM

I use Forte Community edition, which sun gives out for free, but unless you have 128MB or more ram it runs like crap.

(Only anonymous cuz I lost my password)

#3 rcode   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 11:39 AM

If you''re used to Visual C++, then you might want to try Visual J++ which is also made by Microsoft. I can''t really vouch for it though since I only have limited experience with Visual J++. Symantec Cafe is also another popular Java IDE that you may want to look into. Forte is pretty nice and FREE! But like the guy before mentioned, it''s a real memory pig.



#4 ARCHIGAMER   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 12:11 PM

well thres always a Plain Old Text Editor (POTE) or you can get an IDE there is a thread about a month or two ago that talks about IDEs avalible.

I wish there was a button on my monitor to turn up the intellegince.
Theres a button called 'brightness' but it doesn't work

#5 DJNattyP   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 01:13 PM

There''s a freeware IDE called JEDPlus that''s okay... it doesn''t look like much but it has syntax highlighting, class views, running SDK stuff from menus, etc. and it''s not a memory hog like Forte. I think you can find it at either Stingray Software at www.stingray.com or Rogue Wave Software at www.roguewave.com
Hope it helps,
Nathan



#6 iwasbiggs   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 01:13 PM

FreeJava2.0.5 seems to work good if you''re just making small programs, it isn''t bloated at all. If you go for any larger scale project I recommend any of the previously mentioned IDE''s.

#7 Smoo   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 September 2000 - 04:28 PM

If you''ve been used to programming with VB, then VJ++ is a good step to make.
Now there are alot of concerns that it can''t do third party extensions (like swing) which it can''t do natively.

There is however a faq:
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q243/0/22.asp
that says howto incorporate third party material into VJ++... My old Java teacher did this and it worked. I did this and it didn''t... then again I had played around with my java vm alot that I probably FUBARed it which really wouldn''t surprise me.

I just recently got a not-so-free version of VisualAge from IBM and it''s great... once you wiggle your way around the interface.

But I mostly used VJ++ and it definitely was a good interface to work with and hey, if you can get third party extensions to work then go for it. Then again, it''s your choice.

Smoo

#8 GunnarSteinn   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 26 September 2000 - 02:38 AM

Thank you all for your answers. I think I''ll start with Forte and see how I like it

#9 felonius   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 27 September 2000 - 12:21 AM

Forte: Slooowwww. I have an Athlon 700Mhz with 128MB RAM and it runs like h***. I wait several seconds just to open a new drop drown menu.

J++: Non standard and non portable. To avoid. After C# Microsoft isn''t going to support this much so its future is quite dim.

Symantec Visual Cafe (actually it is called WebGain Visual Cafe these days): Good but quite buggy. After WebGain has taken over it hasn''t got any better, actually the support is just now worse. This is the one I use.

Borlands JBuilder: The standard edition is free and they say it is quite good. I would use this I had a choice.

IBM Visual Age for Java: Quite good too and contains what I hear to be the markets fastes Java VM.

About using text editors - getting a good IDE really speeds things up, so I think you should try JBuilder or Visual Age for Java.

Jacob Marner

#10 TheEarl   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 27 September 2000 - 12:27 AM

I''d recommend Visual Slickedit above all others for coding in Java. Too many features to list, but the beauty of it is it''s support for other languages. Developing programs in different languages on multiple OSs using one IDE is wonderful. It can also emulate the Visual C++ IDE and even read its project files. Take a look at www.slickedit.com, and no, I don''t work there I just love the product...

#11 SteveMeister   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 27 September 2000 - 01:25 AM

One thing about Forte -- if you have a dual processor system like we have where I work, it performs much better than if you have a single CPU. The program is faster on a dual 450 PIII than it is on a single 700 PIII with the same amount of RAM.


#12 JEDMaster   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 27 September 2000 - 01:49 AM

That''s because thats 900 mhz as opposed to 700.

I use textEdit myself... small, clean, efficient... Considering I learned Java using wordpad, I find it much easier to just stick my hands in the guts. Don''t need a special evironment.

#13 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 27 September 2000 - 07:16 AM

quote:
Original post by JEDMaster
I use textEdit myself... small, clean, efficient... Considering I learned Java using wordpad, I find it much easier to just stick my hands in the guts. Don''t need a special evironment.


I used to think so also. Some years ago I used to be a fanatic MAKE and script writer and preferred command line interfaces for anything I did. I liked the flexible that that offered compared with some of the IDEs available then, but the world change and today you really can work much faster using an IDE.

To mention a few things that you most certainly get through make files and normal text editors, even if they have syntax color coding. None of these are strictly neccesary (you don''t *need* an IDE) but many of them are time savers. To mention a few:

* An integrated visual debugger. Place break point directly from you your code and edit code at run time.
* Easy code navigation. For instance, many support features such as "go to definition" when you click on a variable or method and viola you are at the place in the code where it is deifned.
* automatic parameter help while you write so you don''t have to remember the parameter list of every single method.
* the ability to find methods in the help by just selected them and typing F1.
* Visual editors for user interfaces that can generate and parse code for you while you work. This is really great time savers speeding up user interface development manyfold.
* Syntax errors are indicated during coding - not compilation.

You cetainly can''t do these things without an IDE and avoiding IDEs is certainly a way of making things harder on yourself.

Jacob Marner

#14 SteveMeister   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 28 September 2000 - 01:43 AM

quote:
Original post by JEDMaster

That''s because thats 900 mhz as opposed to 700.



No, it''s because Forte is multi-threaded and in Win2K, the JVM automatically takes advantage of the fact that there are two processors (i.e. some threads execute on one CPU while others execute on the other CPU).

A dual-processor system is not simply twice as fast as a single processor system. If the program being executed is not multi threaded, it will run only on one CPU, so on adual 450MHz machine the program will run MUCH slower than on a single 700MHz or higher machine.




#15 bobbin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 02:38 AM


Real programmers use vi. I once used visual age for java (linux version) but you''ll find that you can''t upgrade the IDE as fast as Sun roll out new JDK''s. Currently most only support 1.2 and you can bet it''ll will be a while until they start using 1.3. If your just starting its best not to use an IDE, you''ll just pick up bad habets. I know prof. developers who can''t code java with out their IDE (cuss the IDE fills in all the constructor stuff) and that is bad
If you wan''a do this stuff for real, kill M$ Windows install Linux or better still Free BSD...

#16 bobbin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 02:42 AM

quote:
Original post by SteveMeister

[quote] Original post by JEDMaster

That''s because thats 900 mhz as opposed to 700.



No, it''s because Forte is multi-threaded and in Win2K, the JVM automatically takes advantage of the fact that there are two processors (i.e. some threads execute on one CPU while others execute on the other CPU).

A dual-processor system is not simply twice as fast as a single processor system. If the program being executed is not multi threaded, it will run only on one CPU, so on adual 450MHz machine the program will run MUCH slower than on a single 700MHz or higher machine.




I''m sorry but what _fool_ would build a nice duel processor system & then stick windows on it?? Bet you that my Duel 333 running Free BSD whips your duel 450 w/ M$ Windowz



#17 Ophidian   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 04:43 AM

i would have to say that nt does pretty well on a dual cpu box

granted the 9x line doesnt know the second cpu exists

#18 SteveMeister   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 06:58 AM

bobbin -- why, you elitist, socialist Linux/BSD snob ;-)

Truthfully, we have no problems running Win2K on these systems, and no complaints. Everything works, so why introduce a whole new level of complexity (and the vexation of our IT staff) by converting to a different OS?

#19 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 12:32 PM

Forte and JBuilder are equally slow. Forte seems to be a bit faster though, and I prefer it over JBuilder, I haven''t liked a Borland product since Turbo C/Pascal. RAM is what you need with any ''Java IDE''. I find a K6 475mhz, 192MB works great. The 550mhz/128MB Pentium III at work is nice also, but my Celeron 466 with only 64MB doesn''t work very well. Bumping it up to 96MB should be a help. They require 64, with 128 being reccommended.


qurob@hotmail.com

#20 bobbin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 October 2000 - 09:59 PM

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

Forte and JBuilder are equally slow. Forte seems to be a bit faster though, and I prefer it over JBuilder, I haven''t liked a Borland product since Turbo C/Pascal. RAM is what you need with any ''Java IDE''. I find a K6 475mhz, 192MB works great. The 550mhz/128MB Pentium III at work is nice also, but my Celeron 466 with only 64MB doesn''t work very well. Bumping it up to 96MB should be a help. They require 64, with 128 being reccommended.


qurob@hotmail.com


Ah, turbo pascal 7, now there was a real IDE, they don''t make them like that anymore.....





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