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[java] Java and 3D


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#1 SirCyr   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 03:48 PM

Hello there I was wondering if it was possible to render 3D graphcis in java,,,with OpenGl for example. and if so, would the rendering speed be comparable to the one I would get with a C++ app?

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#2 ARCHIGAMER   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 05:32 PM

I don''t know about performance but I know you can use OpenGL in Java

I wish there was a button on my monitor to turn up the intellegince.
Theres a button called 'brightness' but it doesn't work

#3 GKW   Members   -  Reputation: 200

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 06:14 PM

You can get Magician here and I have never measured but I would bet it is %80 to %90 of a c++ program. This might mean that instead of 90fps you get 80fps. I don't see a difference but some people do. Implement your culling algorithms correctly and you're good to go.

I wanrned you! Didn't I warn you?! That colored chalk was forged by Lucifer himself!

Edited by - GKW on September 30, 2000 1:18:42 AM

#4 Hodglim   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 29 September 2000 - 11:05 PM

You can also use GL4Java available from Jausoft to create OpenGL Java applications/applets.

If you are interested I have ported some of the popular Nehe OpenGL tutorials to Java using the GL4Java library here on my site (Shameless plug :O)

Have fun!



- Hodglim
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#5 SirCyr   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 30 September 2000 - 02:26 AM

ohh it is nice then

Im familiar with c++ and I was planning to study java...

so I guess that if OpenGl is accessible, a 3D game could be made in java at reasonable speed...



#6 GKW   Members   -  Reputation: 200

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Posted 30 September 2000 - 10:04 AM

The OpenGL ARB has asked that the Magician binding become the official binding so since you don''t know either I would suggest you go with Magician over GL4Java. The tutorials are easy enought to port over. Give you some good experience with Magician too.

I wanrned you! Didn't I warn you?! That colored chalk was forged by Lucifer himself!

#7 Jerry Lynn   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 30 September 2000 - 06:51 PM

You can also get an overview with links to several starter articles on using OpenGL with Java from the thread''s FAQ. On that page there are links to at least 4 different implementations of Java-To-OpenGL bindings, but you are probably better off sticking with Magician or GL4Java (I believe they have the largest mind share, and Magician looks like its the OpenGL ARB standard now with that recomendation from SGI).

http://games.cpbinc.com/faq/ogl.asp

(I swear no one ever looks at that thing...)

#8 bobbin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 03:57 AM

Nar, you don''t wan''a do it like that
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/onlineTraining/java3d/
for all the info on the Java 3D Api (from sun) which has interfaces for Direct-X (or what ever you M$ clowns are calling it now) and Open-GL (which is quite nice). Its a bit of a bummer to get your head round through!!

#9 Jerry Lynn   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 04:42 AM

I actually attempted to build a 3D game engine using the Java 3D API. Not only was there very little in the way of decent documentation and existing code references, but the performance and system requirements necessary to achieve decent performance meant that my game would run on only about 2% of all PC''s in existence. And Java 3D is a MAJOR memory hog. You need at least 128 MB of memory, and more like 256 MB to be comfortable.

At first I did not trust what I was seeing - I thought maybe I just didn''t know how to tweak performance out of the API. So I downloaded code from various sites - some from NCSA - and tested the performance and system requirements of those programs. I got the same results.

I also had some problems with limitations in the API - such as only being able to detect one collision at a time and the lack of support for animated textures. The fact that the API ignores other collisions while in the process of handling a first collision was a big problem.

Overall I decided to go with OpenGL and wait for one or two more revisions of Java 3D before trying to build a game with it.


#10 felonius   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 05:50 AM

First, I don''t believe that any OpenGL wrapper for Java can run nearly as fast as the same program written in C++. I like Java and use it for games but OpenGL is a fairly low level API (in comparison with complete 3D engines that is such as Genesis3D) meaning that many calls are required through the wrappers slowing it down. A framerate drop of 90 to 80 is not likely for a thin OpenGL wrapper. I don''t believe it. It must be much worse.

However, if you use a higher level API with a complete engine built in and this engine is written in C++ and you just access it through few calls then this will be able to achieve quite high frame rates.

I am currently getting paid for writing a Java wrapper for the Eldermage 3D engine. Eldermage already runs in Visual C++, Visual Basic (ActiveX), C++ Builder, and Delphi and soon to come also Java.

Look at www.eldermage.com and see what it can do.

Jacob Marner

#11 buh   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 10:23 AM

Check out roboforge . I''m pretty sure it''s done with Java3D. Looks pretty sweet.

#12 GKW   Members   -  Reputation: 200

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Posted 03 October 2000 - 07:11 PM

Yes repeated calls through the wrapper will kill your frame rate and no Java is not as fast as c. But if you use display lists and triangle strips and what not and minimize the number of calls you make you can get some respectable fps. Wait for 1.4 to come out. Supposedly they are putting alot of work into speeding up Java2d, adding hardware acceleration and finally no tricks to get fullscreen frames. Maybe I should do some kind of mini bechmark to test the speed of Magician vs GLUT. Have to dust off my c skills.

I wanrned you! Didn't I warn you?! That colored chalk was forged by Lucifer himself!

#13 gregorypierce   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 06 October 2000 - 07:53 AM

Well I personally loath Java3D. It performs like crap, the API was definitely not designed by a game developer, it requires the Java Plugin, and its still not quite all there. Perhaps I''m being too harsh, but there are definitely better solutions out there. I would definitely check out Magician, GL4Java or wait until next Jan/Feb, there are entire engines coming out for this express purpose.




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