Hi
I am considering to switch, or upgrade, to console game developement. I'm not going to choose XBox 2 because its backward compatability issues and the way it's programmed.
My choice will be Playstation 3, and the next GameCube.
Will programming for PS3 be the same as for PS2, but with additional VU instructions that reflect the new capapbilities?
How do I become a licened PS or GameCube developer, and how much does it cost (the Dev KIT)?
Where can I download official PS development manuals in pdf?
Thanks.
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Playstation Dev
Started by WISMAK, Oct 04 2004 05:44 AM
39 replies to this topic
Sponsor:
#2 Crossbones+ - Reputation: 3304
Posted 04 October 2004 - 05:54 AM
first of all, they do not let indie developers program or make games on their systems. you'll have to be a full-fledged company and most likely have the backing of a reputable publisher that has a license from Nintendo or Sony.
also, they don't sell dev kits to individual, especially not Nintendo.
plus a dev kit is usually $10,000 USD and higher (most of the time higher).
you'll have to wait until someone reverse hacks it or they give some sort of Linux package like the PS2 did.
also, they don't sell dev kits to individual, especially not Nintendo.
plus a dev kit is usually $10,000 USD and higher (most of the time higher).
you'll have to wait until someone reverse hacks it or they give some sort of Linux package like the PS2 did.
#5 Crossbones+ - Reputation: 3304
Posted 04 October 2004 - 10:25 AM
why don't you just develop for the Dreamcast or PS2?
Dreamcast: http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB
PS2: http://ps2dev.org/kb.x?T=691
enjoy.
Dreamcast: http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB
PS2: http://ps2dev.org/kb.x?T=691
enjoy.
#6 Members - Reputation: 1300
Posted 04 October 2004 - 10:47 AM
Quote:
Original post by WISMAK
I see.
So how could someone learn and gain experience in console programming?
By getting good on the PC, by getting a PS2 Linux kit, by then getting a job at an established games company who are a licensed developer. Most of games programming is "technique" rather than anything specific to any platform - learn the relevant mathematics, algorithms and general development practices and you'll be able to develop for any platform.
Quote:
What if I use a hacked dev kits and release a game?
During making the game, nothing. But as soon as you released it or started publicising it, firstly no retailers would touch it; secondly you should [at very least] expect to recieve a "cease and desist" letter from their lawyers pretty soon afterwards.
Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft sell console hardware at a loss. Their profit comes from a royalty from sales of games by licensed publishers & developers. They wouldn't be getting this royalty if you were to bypass them using hacked hardware and homebrew kits.
In addition they have extremely strict quality control procedures (game design, no bugs, usability, consistency etc); and often even excercise controls over which genres of product can be released within a particular time frame.
This is to ensure a fair range of products and consistency for their customers (for example the X button always does the same thing in a PS2 game from the same territory; the length of time the manufacturers logo stays on is always consistent etc)
Quote:
And what if I cry in the middle of Sony begging them to sell me a dev kit?
[smile] They'd tell you to go to university, then get a job at an established game development/publishing company and come back once you had some commercial experience. BTW, many publishers, console manufacturers and some developers do have internships.
Simon O'Connor
#7 Staff Emeritus - Reputation: 1821
Posted 05 October 2004 - 01:20 AM
Just a reminder: you are very much not allowed to distribute things like the TRC. Doing so is against the NDA that you (or someone on your behalf) signed when you got access to it.
Moreover, GDNet won't allow such things to happen on these boards - it'll be treated the same as warez, which is an instant ban for those involved. We could also report you to the relevant console company.
Moreover, GDNet won't allow such things to happen on these boards - it'll be treated the same as warez, which is an instant ban for those involved. We could also report you to the relevant console company.
#8 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_* Guests - Reputation:
Posted 05 October 2004 - 05:51 AM
Quote:
Original post by superpig
Just a reminder: you are very much not allowed to distribute things like the TRC. Doing so is against the NDA that you (or someone on your behalf) signed when you got access to it.
Moreover, GDNet won't allow such things to happen on these boards - it'll be treated the same as warez, which is an instant ban for those involved. We could also report you to the relevant console company.
very sorry about that wasnt aware that they where not common knowledge
#9 Crossbones+ - Reputation: 3304
Posted 05 October 2004 - 06:18 AM
Quote:
Original post by superpig
Just a reminder: you are very much not allowed to distribute things like the TRC. Doing so is against the NDA that you (or someone on your behalf) signed when you got access to it.
Moreover, GDNet won't allow such things to happen on these boards - it'll be treated the same as warez, which is an instant ban for those involved. We could also report you to the relevant console company.
what's the TRC?
#11 Staff Emeritus - Reputation: 1821
Posted 05 October 2004 - 07:35 AM
Quote:Technical Requirements Checklist. It's part of every console's QA process, and is included in the dev kit.
Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Quote:
Original post by superpig
Just a reminder: you are very much not allowed to distribute things like the TRC. Doing so is against the NDA that you (or someone on your behalf) signed when you got access to it.
Moreover, GDNet won't allow such things to happen on these boards - it'll be treated the same as warez, which is an instant ban for those involved. We could also report you to the relevant console company.
what's the TRC?
Quote:
Original post by WIZMAK
What if I use MIPS compiler and assembler and a hacked PS liker to generate the executable, and test my code using a free emulator like ePSXe. Then when I finish testing and debugging, I burn the files on a PS loadable CDROM.
What you do in the privacy of your own home is basically up to you. So sure, you could make your own games in that way, invite your friends round to play them, etc.
However, the moment you start trying to distribute it (even for free), is the moment Sony will come down on you like a ton of bricks.
#13 Members - Reputation: 212
Posted 05 October 2004 - 02:33 PM
Quote:
Original post by Pipo DeClown
Have this every happened? Will Sony leave you with a warning, cease letter, or will it actually sue you and put you behind bars? How does Sony treat illegal indie developers?
It depends. If you used illegal copies of Sony's SDK or created a product for copyright infringement they'd probably slap you pretty hard, but if you used a freely (and LEGALLY) available toolchain there really isn't anything they can do, which has been held up in court on at least two seperate occasions.
I mean no offense by saying this, but you have a goal of developming and releasing a game commercially on your own, you can forget about it. There are far too many techincal, financial, and legal issues, not to mention the amount of work required for a commercially viable console game is well beyond an individual.
Shoot Pixels Not People
#14 Banned - Reputation: 100
Posted 05 October 2004 - 07:58 PM
So to avoid legal issues, I will try the XBox 2 as my last resort. However, I'm not sure if it will be cooler than it's counterpart consoles, and if it'll be still programmed in the same way using DirectX?
How much does the official XDK cost? and is it easy to obtain the license from Microsoft?
How much does the official XDK cost? and is it easy to obtain the license from Microsoft?
#15 Members - Reputation: 600
Posted 05 October 2004 - 08:07 PM
Quote:
Original post by WISMAK
So to avoid legal issues, I will try the XBox 2 as my last resort. However, I'm not sure if it will be cooler than it's counterpart consoles, and if it'll be still programmed in the same way using DirectX?
How much does the official XDK cost? and is it easy to obtain the license from Microsoft?
If you haven't figured from all the previous post the closest thing you as an individual are going to get to a console sdk is the sony linux ps2 kit which as far as I know is sold out but you can probably find it on ebay and i have one but ain't selling it anytime soon.
Don't talk about writing games, don't write design docs, don't spend your time on web boards. Sit in your house write 20 games when you complete them you will either want to do it the rest of your life or not * Andre Lamothe
#16 Members - Reputation: 212
Posted 05 October 2004 - 09:13 PM
You're not going to be able to get a PS3, XBox2, or GC2 development kit. Mainly because they aren't available period. A few, large, trusted developers *may* have some early "this might be what the system will be like" docs, but that's it at the moment.
Now if you want to develop a game for the PS2, GameCube, GBA, or XBox, then my advice is to give up now and save yourself some trouble. The only way to get dev kits is to an established developer, or to have the backing of a reputable publisher. You can not get that backing without first having a game. You can not make that game without the dev kit. You see the dilemma? So if you want to make console games, you either want to go work for a developer that makes console games, or you need to start your own company that establishes itself by making quality PC games.
Now, the other alternative is to make games for older consoles or to buy one of Sony's Linux kits. Homebrew development is very possible on the GBA, Dreamcast, PS2, GP32, etc. However, you're not going to make money making those types of games. You can only hope for experience and recognition that will help you land a job or start a company down the road.
Some links:
Nintendo's developer site: http://www.warioworld.com/
Sony's PS2 Linux site: http://playstation2-linux.com/
Microsoft's Xbox developer's site: http://www.xbox.com/en-us/dev/default.htm
GBA homebrew site: http://www.gbadev.org/
Dreamcast homebrew site: http://www.dcemulation.com/
GP32 site: http://www.devrs.com/gp32/
Homebrew hardware supplies: http://www.lik-sang.com/
Now if you want to develop a game for the PS2, GameCube, GBA, or XBox, then my advice is to give up now and save yourself some trouble. The only way to get dev kits is to an established developer, or to have the backing of a reputable publisher. You can not get that backing without first having a game. You can not make that game without the dev kit. You see the dilemma? So if you want to make console games, you either want to go work for a developer that makes console games, or you need to start your own company that establishes itself by making quality PC games.
Now, the other alternative is to make games for older consoles or to buy one of Sony's Linux kits. Homebrew development is very possible on the GBA, Dreamcast, PS2, GP32, etc. However, you're not going to make money making those types of games. You can only hope for experience and recognition that will help you land a job or start a company down the road.
Some links:
Nintendo's developer site: http://www.warioworld.com/
Sony's PS2 Linux site: http://playstation2-linux.com/
Microsoft's Xbox developer's site: http://www.xbox.com/en-us/dev/default.htm
GBA homebrew site: http://www.gbadev.org/
Dreamcast homebrew site: http://www.dcemulation.com/
GP32 site: http://www.devrs.com/gp32/
Homebrew hardware supplies: http://www.lik-sang.com/
#17 Members - Reputation: 157
Posted 06 October 2004 - 12:52 AM
i read somewhere (gameindustry.biz?) that a few preliminary XBox2 dev kits have been sent to trusted developers (i assume those who'll be working on the titles to be available when the console is released).
other thing is the PS2 architecture is a nightmare plus the toolchain is very basic. and i mean basic.
if i had to choose a console to dev on atm it'd be the XBox, as you can do a lot on the PC and port it over.
other thing is the PS2 architecture is a nightmare plus the toolchain is very basic. and i mean basic.
if i had to choose a console to dev on atm it'd be the XBox, as you can do a lot on the PC and port it over.
#20 Staff Emeritus - Reputation: 1821
Posted 06 October 2004 - 11:26 PM
The Xenon kits, as people have said, are under very limited availability; even if you got a job at one of the development firms that have a kit, I expect you'd still be very lucky to be allowed to work with one.
You definitely won't get one from Microsoft, particularly if you've not published any XBox 1 titles.
I reckon your best bet, if you're determined to get something onto console, is to develop with XBox 1 in mind. Work on PC, keep your platform-specific and platform-independent code strongly delineated, and use DirectX 8.1. If you can produce a viable prototype like that then you stand a better chance of ever getting anything onto console... the PC build serves as the demo you show to Evil Bachus's "reputable publishers." If you can sign a publisher for the game, they can get you an XBox dev kit, and you can port the game across to XBox.
You definitely won't get one from Microsoft, particularly if you've not published any XBox 1 titles.
I reckon your best bet, if you're determined to get something onto console, is to develop with XBox 1 in mind. Work on PC, keep your platform-specific and platform-independent code strongly delineated, and use DirectX 8.1. If you can produce a viable prototype like that then you stand a better chance of ever getting anything onto console... the PC build serves as the demo you show to Evil Bachus's "reputable publishers." If you can sign a publisher for the game, they can get you an XBox dev kit, and you can port the game across to XBox.
