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Must RPGs have a story?


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#81 Landfish   Members   -  Reputation: 288

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 11:42 AM

HAHA! Naz, that wasn''t me.

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#82 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 11:49 AM

Hmmm...that AP really smelled like a Landfish, but I couldn''t imagine you talking about a game w/ no story like that.

Well, I take back my statement about Landfish having original ideas then j/k

Well, whoever that AP was, nice ideas


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change sometimes, the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


#83 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 01:02 PM

Thank you.

Now let''s expand on them.

#84 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 01:22 PM

I like the idea of some non-story goal. It frees the player to have loose experiences w/out the potential constictions of a conhesive story.

Perhaps, the player could choose from 3 or 4 goals allowing more replayabiltity. One goal could be material wealth while another could be for power another could be knowledge.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change sometimes, the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


#85 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1217

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 02:31 PM

I say that you could have lots of goals that satisfy winning conditions, and then let the player decide which they think the goal is. Like finding out who they are, slaughtering every goblin in sight, saving the goblin population, slaughtering the human pop...disease (gaia hypothesis ), or overruling either population... or another...

Hmmm,

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          


#86 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 02:45 PM

Yeah I like that much better, dwarf


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change sometimes, the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


#87 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1217

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Posted 28 October 2000 - 10:23 PM

Just thinking about your ''general'' concequences to story events Naz (and about Delisk''s memory game) and I was thinking that if you enter in the wrong combination, then you fall into a dungeon which you must find your way out of. You would find yourself out in some other part of the country/world when you get out and you would continue to a different end...

I am thinking now that the idea has merit

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          


#88 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 08:52 AM

I can''t believe a person would actually deface the true essence of the RPG game genre! The is only one type of classic RPG: the one with the amazing storyline and characters. It''s unfortunate that some people believe that by taking the storyline out of some great game, for instance, Final Fantasy 7, you can make a better game and that this messed pile of characters suspended in space with no beginning and end to their quest is also a great way to portray emotion and personality of a character (hence "role-playing")through conflicts with many differents forces. WRONG!!! The true thoughts of a character can NOT be expressed without a storyline and it would be pointless to attempt to put a character in an evironment that doesn''t develope and to expect the character to develope aside from non-existant plot. (Ex: In FF7, the storyline was what drove the Shinra company to eventually die off, it was the storyline which brought meteor hurdling toward the suffering planet, and it was the storyline which led the pyscho, Sepiroth, to kill Aeris, the last living of the Cetra. Everything in the game was connected to the storyline, and without one, I''m sure, FF7 would be the shame of Square right now).

#89 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 09:05 AM

I can''t believe a person would actually deface the true essence of the RPG game genre! The is only one type of classic RPG: the one with the amazing storyline and characters. It''s unfortunate that some people believe that by taking the storyline out of some great game, for instance, Final Fantasy 7, you can make a better game and that this messed pile of characters suspended in space with no beginning and end to their quest is also a great way to portray emotion and personality of a character (hence "role-playing")through conflicts with many differents forces. WRONG!!! The true thoughts of a character can NOT be expressed without a storyline and it would be pointless to attempt to put a character in an evironment that doesn''t develope and to expect the character to develope aside from non-existant plot. (Ex: In FF7, the storyline was what drove the Shinra company to eventually die off, it was the storyline which brought meteor hurdling toward the suffering planet, and it was the storyline which led the pyscho, Sepiroth, to kill Aeris, the last living of the Cetra. Everything in the game was connected to the storyline, and without one, I''m sure, FF7 would be the shame of Square right now). The RPG experience is not like reading a book. It''s like living a fantasy with a host of unique individuals whom you control to drive the story forward. This experince can affect your mind critically in many ways, stimulating your imagination with the story of another world or realm (in essence, a fantasy). To say that an RPG MUST have a story is key because like the characters in those classic RPG''s we struggle with something and find a way to express it through their experinces.They are an important tool to finding our own faults, but, without a plot, they are simply pretty piles of garbage with no expression. Don''t take the life out of RPG''s!!!

#90 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 09:16 AM

Good. I'm glad there are still a few people out there who completely miss the point.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on November 1, 2000 5:29:50 PM

#91 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1217

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 10:26 AM

I agree naz, though remember - you can''t have progress without opposition

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          


#92 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 10:32 AM

yeah dwarf, but the real problem is that people keep opposing the wrong point


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


#93 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1217

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 10:42 AM

Quite right naz... so here I go

quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster

I can''t believe a person would actually deface the true essence of the RPG game genre!




Forgetting that us game designers and writers scrapped the idea of genres at least 2 weeks ago? We don''t care for sticking with tradition anyway, [ex-]RPG[-ish]''s SUCK! That is why we propose new ideas!

quote:

The is only one type of classic RPG: the one with the amazing storyline and characters.


There is no ''type'' of classic anything... That is the whole problem with the outlook on games. I am all for stories in games, but I don''t think you are seeing the point. We are saying that there is a PURPOSE to the game, but there is no DEFINED story, in that the player MAKES the story in order to ACHIEVE the PURPOSE. This requires that the game has a loose set of rules and a few different methods of achieving the same goal, possibly on different paths... This is why we don''t think you understand.

I have no problem with [ex-]RPG[-ish] stories, but I would also like to see the alternative... Nuff said

PS, Naz - I am from Tiberia because 1) I also wanted to piss off pouya and 2) eveybody else is doing it, so why not jump on the bandwagon

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          


#94 Landfish   Members   -  Reputation: 288

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 10:48 AM

You should have to be on any certain page for 10 seconds/post before you can add, to ensure that you at least read SOME of it before posting.

#95 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 10:51 AM

Thanks, dwarfsoft. I didn''t have the energy to go over it again. Basically, AP, we''re not saying RPGs shouldn''t have a story we''re saying that the concept of RPG locks people into a certain idea of what an RPG must be.

We''re not debating the importance of a story. We''re debating the fact that the idea of an RPG (or any genre) makes us as designers locked into specific concept of what an RPG is.

quote:
by dwarfsoft
PS, Naz - I am from Tiberia because 1) I also wanted to piss off pouya and 2) eveybody else is doing it, so why not jump on the bandwagon



Yeah, I am all for pissing off pouya
Maybe we can get the whole forum to do it



"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


#96 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 01 November 2000 - 10:52 AM

quote:
Original post by Landfish

You should have to be on any certain page for 10 seconds/post before you can add, to ensure that you at least read SOME of it before posting.


Yeah really ~LoL~
That''s going into the GDNet suggestions




"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.





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