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MMORPG REAL CASH SYSTEM


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#1 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:39 AM

I know most companies don't like players selling items from MMORPGs on Ebay. However, I read in the Themis report something like 8millions dollars in sale happened on ebay based on MMORPG sales of vitural items and characters. I don't understand why companies start to embrace this idea more. Look at the problems this could solve. If you made the money system in a game real cash for players. They could in turn make real incomes for playing a game. This could employ thousands upon thousands of users. I know your saying how does a game company come up with the money to employ all the users. It's quite simple I have a business model that outlines how both the game company and players will be able to make profit from playing a game. If you look at it if all of World of Warcrafts 250,000 users could make money that could be considered either a full time income or at least a part time income. I believe the idea should be promoted to governments because the idea of job creation on this type of scale would be huge. I am designing this idea now and I am trying to promote it to Corporate companies as well as Government leaders in Canada. I am also considering talking to other governments like the USA and Japan and China and some Europe countries as well. If you are interested to hear more about the idea you leave feedback here or email me at sales@howlingdesigns.com Good and Bad feedback would be very helpful, so I can hear some of the pros and cons of this idea.

Sponsor:

#2 Fruny   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1653

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:44 AM

Off the top of my head:

Player lawsuits
Real-world taxes
Rampant inflation
Gambling laws
Money laundering

#3 Michalson   Members   -  Reputation: 1657

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:55 AM

Quote:
Original post by Fruny
Off the top of my head:

Player lawsuits
Real-world taxes
Rampant inflation
Gambling laws
Money laundering


Cheating/Hacking/Botting/Scamming (which causes the above along with many other problems)

#4 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:55 AM

lawsuits would be offset right at the beginning of when they signed up because all players would read the disclaimer explaining the details of how lawsuits will be avoided.

Real world taxes would have to be worked out with the government. I thought that would be one of the major problems too. That's why I would embrace the idea of getting government support for creating the game.

I think inflation is something that can be moderately controlled, but there will be problems. However, inflation can be held to reasonable rates with restrictions and help from an economists. Gambling laws is something I have been thinking about as well. However, there are tons of Online casinos and they seem to operate pretty well. I would mostly follow the same guidelines as an online casino for gambling laws. Money laundering would be hard to see happen I think. When players are killed in the game they cannot steal other player items because thats something that would just simply create mass amounts of lawsuits that would happen inside the game environment.

I understand this might be a hard idea to show people. I thought it could never happen myself. However, when I started to designs game it started to make more sense. Then when I started to make some business projections and models it started to show how much a player and how much a company could make. I already saw on enteral lands that somebody bought a property there for $26,500 now who would spend that type of money on a virtual property unless they knew that they could make there money back. Also, second life allows the players to exchange there game credits for real US dollar figures. I can see a trend of this happening on a small scale now, but the potential could be huge if it is embrace right.

#5 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 09:58 AM

Cheating/Hacking/Botting/Scamming (which causes the above along with many other problems)

all those things above would be outlawed in the game. Since this is a game that has real money systems outside hacking, scamming, cheating would allow have sevre punishments that could lead to jail time or high government fines. Thats another reason I would be looking at governments for helping me create the game.

#6 Fruny   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1653

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:19 AM

Quote:
Original post by shadow66ca2000
lawsuits would be offset right at the beginning of when they signed up because all players would read the disclaimer explaining the details of how lawsuits will be avoided.


Which may or may not be binding depending on local laws. Good luck with that.

Quote:
However, inflation can be held to reasonable rates with restrictions and help from an economists.


As soon as you assign a real-world value to your in-game money, you have to have the real-world money to back it up. Player subscriptions effectively put an upper limit to how much money you can print each month without risking serious real-world problems, which also has an effect on the value of in-game non-cash items.

Quote:
Original post by shadow66ca2000
Cheating/Hacking/Botting/Scamming (which causes the above along with many other problems)

all those things above would be outlawed in the game. Since this is a game that has real money systems outside hacking, scamming, cheating would allow have sevre punishments that could lead to jail time or high government fines. Thats another reason I would be looking at governments for helping me create the game.


Outlawing it won't stop it from happening - you should acquaint yourself with how online casinos, poker sites, etc... deal with the issue. You're essentially proposing to open a bank (or, depending on the way you look at it, create a new currency), which is definitely no trivial matter, regardless of any 'game' consideration. See Paypal.

#7 Auron   Members   -  Reputation: 328

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:31 AM

That's wonderful and all, but what, really, is the practicality of this anyway? I wouldn't say this helps to create jobs. It means that more money has to be pumped into the gamer-player cycle (since only the businesses are already generating revenue from the games). And what government is going to go for creating "jobs" that would have people making their livings in a way that is entirely unproductive to society?

And if it were to take off, do you know how many people would do ANYTHING for a job like that? Hell, if I could get paid full-time wages to play a computer game (I realize there's more to it than that), I'd do it. But say that that opens up 250 000 jobs. Well, those 250 000 people would likely not be transferring in from an unemployed status since there are startup costs that no government would ever subsidize; they'd be leaving other jobs that need to be filled. I suppose that's fine when you've only got a number like that. Now imagine if that were applied on a much larger scale. You could end up with jobs that aren't being filled because nobody would want them anymore since they could easily make as much or more playing this game. Seriously, do you know anyone who would work at McDonalds for minimum wage when they could make much higher income playing a game? I don't either. So unless McDonalds increases their wages to be competitive with this game, then that could easily be the end of McDonalds! (Not that that would necessarily be a bad thing...) They increase their wages, then so do all competitors and so on cascading upwards causing... you guessed it! Inflation!

This is of course assuming that registering for these games remains as is. After all, who would subject themselves to going for an interview to determine their eleigibility to play a computer game. Essentially, I can't see the recruitment process being any more rigorous than that at a fast-food chain because then nobody would bother with it. Further, what kind of qualifications could you possibly enforce?! "I'm sorry. We require all of our wizards to have at least a college diploma in online sorcery..."

Lastly, I really don't see how your business model would work. The game companies profit, the players profit. All that money has to come from somewhere. Where is that exactly?

Maybe it's just me, but the thought of creating an intangible meta-universe in which one's participation rewards them in this one is just a little unsettling to me...

-AUron

#8 Fruny   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1653

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:35 AM

Quote:
Original post by Auron
Lastly, I really don't see how your business model would work. The game companies profit, the players profit. All that money has to come from somewhere. Where is that exactly?


Well worth repeating.

And before you say "advertisers", keep in mind it has already been tried (q.v. those "get paid to surf" programs).

#9 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:54 AM

I was part of those paid to surf. What a waste of time that was for me. Advertising could help and couldn't help. Now I understand that if the project became big enough to kill Mc Donalds that would be insane. Where the money would come from is through the company and players. A certain amount of money will come from monthly subscribitions and player purchased items. For example, maybe something like 1 dollar from every subscribition will be allocated towards rewards for characters. However, something as small as a healing potion might cost about $5 or something in the game. So money will be filtered through the system in out from players and the company. I am trying to contact Paypal big time because I think this would be a perfect project for them to look at. I also understand that not everybody who played it would make a profit. In change you could end up losing money, but the potential is there. It's like Vegas they offer people the chance to win tons of money, but at the same time they could end losing there life savings. Something like that could happen in the game as well. Also one of the reasons I am considering this game is so that people wouldn't have to work at McDonalds or something. I worked construction and I hated it.
I would not impose qualifictions to play. However, more skilled players would be able to make more money. In the end there might be school around the world that could offer courses to play the game a certain way. Like who needs any knowledge to sign up for Ebay and start selling. All you need is a credit card. I've heard success stories about people quitting there jobs to make more money on Ebay. I think the same thing would kind of happen in the Game world as well.

#10 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:59 AM

My background is business and I think for sure by business model would work. For governments offering money. I like how secretly government give corporation large amounts of money. For example, the Ontario Government gave over 450 million to FORD this year. I wouldn't even look for a quarter of that much money from the government. To me the government could be helpful by offering advice as well. I am setting up a meeting with a canadian government offical in the next week or so. I also don't feel safe explaining in-depth how my business model works online.



#11 smr   Members   -  Reputation: 1588

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:14 AM

How would this create jobs?

Why would the publisher pay people to play to generate sellable items? They can just create them at will and reap all of the profits themselves.

#12 Fruny   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1653

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:18 AM

Quote:
Original post by shadow66ca2000
I am setting up a meeting with a canadian government offical in the next week or so.


Tell us how it goes. Whether it goes one way or the other, we could probably learn something from your experience. Good luck.

#13 Ready4Dis   Members   -  Reputation: 180

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:26 AM

So, 250,000 people make money, and the other players are all losing money? I'm not seeing how this is *creating* jobs, and who would want to continue playing if you're not the one making the money? Seriuosly, where do you propose the money will come from if the game company has to be paid, the servers have to be kept running and online, and players are being paid... if everyone is getting paid, how is money magically getting there? If it's from non-money making players you're crazy to think people would spend that much money on a game to pay people salaray.

#14 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 12:10 PM

that would be a good idea for a publisher to just create all the items by themselves and reap all the rewards. However, there are laws in place that would forbid that. What would happen is that it would create a monopoly in the game. and from our friends at Mircosoft we found out that monolopies are bad. I also looked at second lifes idea as well. To me Second life is not a games. To me its a tool that just allows somebody to create items to sell. You have to look at MMORPGs today as well. You pay to play every month. In the end there is no way for a player to make a profit, so you are losing money. In the game I have you still pay the monthly fee, but thats the lowest amount of money you can lose. It all depends. I am working off a model of something I created that allows players multiple ways to make money both from quests and having in game jobs. I look at Vegas idealogy of allowing people to win. Like why doesn't Vegas just take 90% of what people spend. If that case nobody would even go. Therefore, if I created a game that had real money and only I (publisher) would reap the profit then nobody would play.

#15 mozie   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 12:22 PM

I dont know as much about business as you (might) know. But I figured:

250,000 users
x $5.00 monthy fee seems reasonable.
-------
$ 1,250,000 income monthy from users (aka workers?)

and lets say, each user on avg buys $40 a month of that in-game-junk.

250,000
x$40.00 junk
-------
$11,250,000 monthly.

hrm, lets also say 50,000 copies are also purch every week, and the company sees a full $20 out of the retail sale (i think thats very high).

50,000
x$20.00
-------
$1,000,000

about $12.25 million dollars a month. income for the company.

8,162 people could be employed as 'game-players' and they could make about $1,500 a month.

leaving $0 for said company, less people getting paid less money (game-players) would make the company make more, and thats who you really need to convince isnt it (after the government thing).

I dunno, seems like it could work if you kept the whole idea of getting paid while you play, kind of a secret. Because then everyone would want to be a 'game-player', and not just a user paying the monthly fee to pay 8,000 people to play the same game and get paid.

Oh, and I don't think I would take a paycut down to $1,500 monthy and just play the same game all the time. When I was addicted to UO, I played for 10 hours some times.

Okay, so maybe it could be done. I just dont think it could last very long, just like the afformentioned payed-to-surf.

Good luck either way!

#16 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 12:23 PM

Quote:
Original post by shadow66ca2000
lawsuits would be offset right at the beginning of when they signed up because all players would read the disclaimer explaining the details of how lawsuits will be avoided.


ROFL. Welcome to The REAL World. Basic tenet of law in all english-speaking countries: just because you have no rights doesn't prevent you from filing a lawsuit; in fact, it positively encourages you to (to "test" whether the removal of those rights was, in fact, legal in the first place).

Quote:

Real world taxes would have to be worked out with the government.


Games companies are brown-trousering at the very thought of govt involvement. Do you have ANY idea what life is like if you are classified a "financial instituation" by western govts? I guarantee that every single games company would terminate their MMOG's overnight and refuse to develop any more.

Quote:

However, inflation can be held to reasonable rates with restrictions and help from an economists.


LOL. Dude, economists are so incapable of doing this that they are currently approaching MMOG developers *asking* them for ideas and *asking* to try out their 100-year-old theories and "finally find out whether they work or not, because no-one really knows at the moment".

Quote:

Gambling laws is something I have been thinking about as well. However, there are tons of Online casinos and they seem to operate pretty well.


It gets better! No, online casinos are a true pain in the ass. Not so much as being a FS instituation (bank, adviser, etc), but still HORRIBLE.

Quote:

Money laundering would be hard to see happen I think.


And better. Money laungering has already put one fledgling MMOG out of business, about 4 years ago (well, IIRC the game was pretty crap too). Turns out the govts weren't exactly happy with the arrangements...

Quote:

I already saw on enteral lands that somebody bought a property there for $26,500 now who would spend that type of money on a virtual property unless they knew that they could make there money back.


I'll tell you who: the marketing dept. How much free publicity did that 26k buy them? For an ad campaign, that was CHEAP.

Piece of advice: it's great to have ideas, but you have more self-doubt and be less blind to the myriad flaws in your plan.

/me is a little worried that I've worked under most of the stricutres listed above at one time or another. Why do I keep doing jobs that involve heavy-handed govt or paperwork? I hate the hassle...

#17 DogCity   Members   -  Reputation: 553

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 12:39 PM

Economics 101.

If all parties make a profit(...), the value of their trade will reduce to the point it is worthless. (edit - very very quickly)

It might also help to know that people who buy game items on ebay are m00ks.

#18 Sta7ic   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 12:46 PM

Are you a bank? No? Are you a foreign country or a multinational corporation with the assets to back up your "money"? Also no? Then good luck issuing any sort of currency with any fiat behind it. This idea won't hold its own in any circumstances, since either you'll see lawsuits, banking regulations, business regulations, taxation issues (how to those people record their income tax?), and other legal hoops.

Stick with virtual money trading for virtual stuff, without trying to affect the real world. It's a flat-out bad idea.

#19 Nice Coder   Members   -  Reputation: 366

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 01:08 PM

It seems resonable.

You could collect taxes, on peoples assets. You also get money from selling eland to people (like for a couple of $ per meter.)

You then get that money, and you give it back to the game. In the form of stuff that monsters have. (you could say go and give the big dragon a huge chunk of gold to protect), You also keep seme of that in game money for yourself. (but not much of it.)

Now what yo uneed, is the differentiation of items.
For eg. a lv204 Wizard could make a magical shield that is much more powerful then a lv200 wizard could make.

Also, you allow items to be scripted, with how powerful it is determined by who made it. For eg. you could have the equaivilant of a minefield on some parts to stop dragons.

Also, you could have something like the spell system of "restless sleep" i think its called.

You basically get a whole bunch of symbols together, and based on your stats, changes the environment.

So you could make a thunderstorm, burn down a building, ect. By tying in the scripting system to the rest of the game. (ie. changing the weather patterns).

From,
Nice coder

#20 shadow66ca2000   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 01:52 PM

nice coder is thinking along the lines I am. Of course, certain people would make more money than others. It all depends on how much time and effort you put into the game. I am not a bank , but I am contacting them to work on this idea. Inflation can never totally be controlled, but there are ways to help control it. If you have to setup ways of money circulation then and interest properly then inflation can be controlled. Game laundering will be illegal in the game of course. Like I have been looking at both sides and I keep saying to myself how this would make money and how would players make money. I realized that taxing will have to be added in the game there will be fees for players to sell items in the game. I know the idea could work as long as it is done right. I know there will be mistakes, but I want government support both with ideas and money before I even start to think about full production. The problem is that you cannot ignore the government. Mircosoft tried to say to hell with them and they were hammered in a law suit.




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