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To Be a Hero...


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#1 Run_The_Shadows   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 634

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Posted 12 November 2000 - 11:31 PM

What would you classify as a ''hero''??? Most of the time, you see the hero as this great benevolent figure, the protagonist of the story. But do heroes really need follow this guideline? I brought this up because I am reading Stephen King''s Dark Tower series: the ''hero'', Roland, The last gunslinger, is about as far from the normal ideals a hero shows...he doesn''t give a damn about anything but his quest to find the dark tower...he''ll use people without a second thought if it furthers his cause. And yet, he is still the hero? This RtS-Babble© has been brought to you by: -Run_The_Shadows -Run_The_Shadows@excite.com

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#2 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 02:24 AM

Do not confuse hero with protagonist.

#3 Run_The_Shadows   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 634

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 07:08 AM

But he IS a hero! He may be rough around the edges...but alot of his motives are based on many of his friends and loved ones being killed by agents of the tower.



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#4 Wavinator   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1825

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 12:25 PM

Heros are not pest control exterminators. Yet that's exactly what we are in just about every combat oriented game. I was noticing awhile back that in many RTS games there's no real way to be a hero. You can't capture enemies, you have to kill everything. So you get to be a butcher, rather than a hero.

Heros are folks who face up to challenges that most folks sidestep. They sacrifice for some greater good and tend to follow some kind of code. They may have a lot of problems in trying to do the right thing, but succeed or fail, they do it anyway. We admire them because of this, because they're ideals of what we'd like to be.

I have yet to find a game that allows me to be a true hero. Such a game would have to provide much greater depth and a level of choice I've never seen in a game, even an RPG (tho' RPGs get closer than most). In most games, you're really just an errand boy, moving from mission / quest / level to mission / quest / level. You don't really get a choice in what you face, and because you ultimately can't really run away (the opposite of heroism), you can't really be a hero.

I guess you could quit the game... but that's not really meaningful inside the game world.

BTW, there's hero, and anti-hero. The Dark Tower guys sounds like an anti-hero, sort of a "chaotic good" sort of person who's ends are right, but whose means leave a lot to be desired.

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Just waiting for the mothership...


Edited by - Wavinator on November 13, 2000 7:27:54 PM

#5 ddarius   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 01:26 PM

First off, nice choice in books, RTS.

Next, Roland has a conscience. He''s probably certifiably insane, because he''s obviously obsessed about his quest, even he knows it, but he does realize that some of the things he does are a bit cruel. So, he''s not too far from the ideal hero, he''s just not a sickening overly chivalrous hero. *shudder*

Now to a point.

In my opinion, a good game doesn''t try to make the main character a hero, it simply should make everything the main character does make sense with respect to that character''s beliefs.

This only applies to games that actually try to give the main character a personality. Senseless violence games (gotta love senseless violence) don''t try. That doesn''t make them bad, it just means that wasn''t what they were going for, and truthfully shouldn''t be what they are going for for that type of a game.

I still would like to see a game free and deep enough so that the main character''s beliefs would be YOUR beliefs.

"It is one thing to use poorly coded programs. It is another to produce poorly coded programs" -- Me, as far as I know.

#6 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1217

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Posted 13 November 2000 - 01:38 PM

Or, the character is defined so well, that the player abandons their own beliefs and adopts those of thier character. That would be a very deep character and a very hard thing to do

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          


#7 Wavinator   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1825

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 01:01 PM

quote:
Original post by dwarfsoft

Or, the character is defined so well, that the player abandons their own beliefs and adopts those of thier character. That would be a very deep character and a very hard thing to do




Yikes! This scares me! Games as propaganda!!!!!

(btw, I know what you meant, j/k)




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#8 dwarfsoft   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1217

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Posted 14 November 2000 - 02:54 PM

Yeah, I know that you understand it. But you could use USEFUL propaganda and try and stop wars and stuff... Make people believe that they really are all human and that they have other things to fear (like aliens coming from the sky or something [j/k]). Maybe games could change the world!

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers'' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          


#9 ahw   Members   -  Reputation: 263

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Posted 17 November 2000 - 03:31 AM

Actually, I DO believe that we CAN have some sort of influence on people if we only tried. I mean, I dont think games will actually make you a violent person. BUT, games make you think. If they make you think that killing is not a good thing, if they taught you that there are other ways than violence to resolve conflicts, I am sure this would be a very interesting thing to observe.

I really dont like the endless "we are not responsible for what you do with our games", it's very immature to say it.
OK, I can feel an anti american ranting coming, so I'll stop right there

More on-topic :
The type of protagonist you describe is your typical anti-hero guy. See the Evil dead series. There was one movie with Dustin Hoffman (sp?) where he arrives on an aircrash site, saves several people, then just run away because he just doesnt want to be in contact with the police.
I am sure a good dictionary will provide a definition of "Hero", as opposed to protagonist.
As well, it's funny how the anti-hero protagonists are so trendy in the recent years...

youpla :-P

Edited by - ahw on November 17, 2000 10:40:40 AM

#10 Nazrix   Members   -  Reputation: 307

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Posted 17 November 2000 - 04:09 AM

Personally, from the perspective of good characterization, anti-heros are pretty interesting, but I really like deep characters & protagonists that have strengths and weaknesses like in American Beauty. The protagonists is just a human being w/ problems and weaknesses and strengths too.


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