Professionalism

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31 comments, last by Wavinator 23 years, 4 months ago
I had an eight grade English teacher, the evil Mrs. Matsubara, who told me that a writer could write about ANYTHING, even the floor. As all my writing was about rockets and lasers at the time, I didn''t want to believe her, and don''t think I want to still. For game design, or writing, I''ve believed you should make what you yourself would buy. But I just ran across the latest Game Developer magazine article inwhich Ernest Adams talks about "professionalism." He calls my sentiment, that a designer should only make what he himself would play, one of the major myths of game design. He goes on to cite the people who made the hugely successful Barbie Fashion designer as an example: They were obviously not the target audience, but they somehow figured out, through research and industry, how to tap into a lucrative market. He seems to believe that to be successful designers need to put aside their distaste for products outside their interest and adopt a more professional attitude. I''m curious what you think about this. Personally, it makes my stomach hurt. I actually got a chance to work in the game industry as a coder for a few short years, mostly on products I cared absolutely nothing about. It was a paycheck, and one of the most passionless forms of existence I''ve ever had. Yet I''ve recently heard of some titles who have designers who wouldn''t be caught dead playing the game (I think SWAT3 was one of them, and of course lots of stuff from Hasborg) We talk alot about the industry maturing. Is "professionalism" the right direction? Should game designers be more like contract writers than fiction writers? If so, how on Earth do you keep design fun? Or is a professional unconcerned with fun, and one who only wants to get the job done? -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...
--------------------Just waiting for the mothership...
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I think this kind of being professional is just unprofessional... I guess John Caramack loves 3D, and he would really suck at coding an RTS ;-) And what about Warren Spector ? He has done RPGs and complex genre mixes like Ultima Underworl, System Shock and DeusEx since ages. I guess he really loves the stuff he does. Nobody can be good at doing boring shit, right ?

Tim

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glvelocity.gamedev.net
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Tim--------------------------glvelocity.gamedev.netwww.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
Hi
My technique is:
I come up with a vision, a vision of a concept... then after some thinking of how when and such... me and a friend of mine is discussing the idea while we are walking, in the woods or such (just for inspiration). And we try to come up with a more an more detaild story line... we then begin with drawing maps and characters, we also thinks about problems and maybe some fighting systems... but the point is, we come up with a concpet that we can feel is good. We don''t discuss what would make most profit even if we try to think what we want, and what other people want...
Thanks...



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In my opinion, writing something that you yuorself would play seems the better way to go around it. For example, if I were one of the designers for that Barbie game, I would sit there everyday praying for this project to end. Outward professionalism is one thing, but you really can''t lie to yuorself.

If you create something that you enjoy, you become attached to it. That in turn leads to the desire to make the game better. I think if someone truly enjoys working on the project, it will turn out much better than if done by someone who''s just there to get paid.

If you''ve seen the movie Office Space, you''ll understand what I mean. The main character was in an interview and he basically said that he hates his job. The only reason he did anything was so that his bosses wouldn''t yell at him, but ONLY enough so that his bosses wouldn''t yell. Therefore, you can see the inherent problem. I''m sure we''ve all had jobs we hate, and if that job involves creative talent, chances are, you''re not going to come up with much.

ArtemisX
i think you are all missing the point of the article in game developer magazine..

now.. i don''t want to get off on a rant here but....

do you know WHY barbie dress up and cosmopolitan makeover made more then nearly every computer game selling at the same time? because they were the only games that weren''t made for zit faced high school boys.

RTS''s and FPS''s and RPG''s are all great genres of games, but if everyone is making those types of games, what happens to the diversity?. i was checking out the newest copy of PC Gamer, and they were talking about all the upcoming Massively Multiplayer online games... there are really only 3 types on the horizon:

1. 3D Shooters
2. 3D RPG''s (and 2D iso ala baulder''s gate)
3. 2D Isometric RTS''s

does that mean that these three types of games are all we have to choose from? sure, one has an extra sword spinning animation, or this FPS has 10 extra frames a second, and a THREE team capture the flag mission as opposed to the ''old'' two team version.

And i''m not saying that improvements over earlier ideas are bad either.. HOMEWORLD is in my opinion one of the most revolutionary advancements in real time simulation games since the first one. (dune II i think?)

Deer Hunter, So you Want to be a Millionare?, Jeopardy, Barbie, Cosmopolitan, THE SIMS, the list goes on and on... these game all did, or are currently outselling nearly all other games that come out at the same time... i think that should be a lesson to all of you.. diversity breeds success.. Odds of any of us becoming the next ID software is low.. that is unless you are a programming genius and can beat good ol'' john carmack at the game he laid the rules down for. which the odds of doing are pretty low.

I''ve got quite a few games that are totally new rolling around in my head, and i''m actually VERY thankful that i keep reading posts from people saying ''i like First Person Shooters more then anything, i''ll never make any other type of game'' or ''i want to make my own RPG, that''s like FFX and ZELDA combined'' or ''i''ve got an idea of how to improve on empire for a RTS''.. it makes me lick my lips because what i''ve planned is nothing of the sort..

remember.. before john carmack came out with wolfenstein and doom and before the first RTS you had only a couple choices of game.. you could make a side scroller, a up-down scroller, a sports game, an rpg, or a mario brothers clone. and back then i''m sure everyone was talking about how they wanted to make a better version of RAIDEN or Super Mario Brothers...

Then came MYST and 7th Guest and Doom, DUNE II, and 3 new genres were created... and now everyone wants to make those types of games..

i can''t stress it enough.. we should all spend time trying to think of something new.. instead of improving on what''s already been done..

and i''m not saying you shouldn''t make RPG''s or RTS''s or FPS''s, if you''ve got the skills, go ahead and make them.. they are great games..

but being too stubborn in your beliefs that if you wouldn''t want to play it, you shouldn''t make it.. you never know.. you could get working on something new and realize it''s a totally new concept that is pretty cool..

and i think that was the real meaning behind that article..

of course that''s just my opinion, i could be wrong.

aegrimonia,

I think you''re right. I''m currently designing a 3D game engine. I have some idea as to what the game will be like, but I''m trying to do a rather open-ended engine so I can have a chance to really stretch the boundaries once the engine is working and I start working on gameplay.

We''ll see what comes of it

DuSiK

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CRAZY_DUSIK* pCrazyDuSiK;
pCrazyDuSiK->EatMicroshaft(MS_MUNCH_BILL_GATES | MS_CHEW_BILL_GATES);
------------------------CRAZY_DUSIK* pCrazyDuSiK = new CRAZY_DUSIK;pCrazyDuSiK->EatMicroshaft(MS_MUNCH_BILL_GATES | MS_CHEW_BILL_GATES);pCrazyDuSiK->WebSiteURL = "http://www.geocities.com/dusik2000";
The succes of games like Deer Hunter is easy to explain:

Thos games are stupid, and most people are dumb as fuck...

a few years ago computers were complicated & expensive. Now, they are easy to use and every idiot has one. So you could sell stupid software like you can show stupid movies ;-) Look at the TV program: Stupid talkshows and such stuff... As computers are getting more popular the games will be as niveauless as the TV program. A few years ago, such games would be doomed to be the worst selling games ever... It''s a sad fact.

Tim

--------------------------
glvelocity.gamedev.net
www.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
Tim--------------------------glvelocity.gamedev.netwww.gamedev.net/hosted/glvelocity
You need to work on what you know and love. Successful authors often are most successful at writing at what they have lived.

Patricia Cornwell''s bestselling books about a medical examiner and forensic science stem from Cornwell''s experience working in that field. I doubt she would be as successful writing about stock market analysis even if there was a demonstrated huge market for it.

Galen Rowell''s mountain photography excels because he was a mountaineer first. I doubt he would be nearly as inspired photographing plates of food.

Go with what you know and inspires you, and then strive to take it in a new direction. Or, identify the markets that aren''t saturated, determine the one which most appeals to you, and bend it till your ideas fit into it.

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I think most people here are coming from the indie/hobbyist point of view when deciding on what type of game to make. In this case of course one should make a game that they would want to play. When people are balancing their real life (job, school, family, etc.) when making their game they don''t have an excess amount of time to work on it and it''s gonna take some serious motivation to finish the game. There''s a reason well over 90% of hobby games are never finished, and balancing life with the creation of a game is one of the major points.

In the professional world of games however, things are very differently. Yes, everybody wants to work on the games that they themselves would like to play, and these types of games generally fall into the hard-core category. While there''s plenty of hard-core games that get on the best-sellers list, very, very few of them come close to the sales of the mass-market games. People working in the industry rely on the sales of their games for income, so while it''d be great to work on their fantasy game, deciding between doing that and paying the bills becomes pretty easy. I know it''s hard to grasp, but some developers would create mass-market games that appeal to a large, un-tapped audience than create a game that will sell 1/10th the copies but gain praise from this game design board.

I''m not saying it''s right, but the gaming industry is a business and one of the largest aims of a business (the largest to most) is to make money. A lot of people have a hard time coming to terms with this.
One of the following three scenarios will describe you. Try to be realistic.

If you''re so sh!t hot that you can write your own ticket and instantly get hired onto whatever team you want at whatever company you choose, then by all means, follow your bliss and go make the game of your dreams.

If you''re good enough to be hired by somebody in the game development business, then make the game you''re paid to make. Maybe through practice and experience you will develop into the ace developer who can call his own shots. In the meanwhile, do your job or be replaced by somebody else who will.

If you aren''t good enough to be hired by anybody in the game industry, then work on your personal projects to improve your skillset and convince somebody that you are in fact worthy of working in the game development industry. In this case, by all means work on something you enjoy.

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