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Updated OpenGL on Vista information


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#1 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7279

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:13 PM

I've been a bit slow posting this, so my applogise to you guys for my slowness.
Quote:
OpenGL can go through one of three paths in Windows Vista depending on how your computer is configured. MSOGL - this is an implementation of OpenGL 1.4 that uses Direct3D under the covers to hardware accellerate the application. Legacy ICD's - These are the ICD's that are available today for use on Windows XP. These will continue to work on Windows Vista, but will disable the DWM when they are loaded in to the process of the application that's using OpenGL. The reason for this is that Legacy ICD's operate directly on the GPU without going through Windows at all, and we have no way of redirecting application's output in a stable, predictable manner. Windows Vista ICD's - this is a new path for 3rd party ICD's introduced for Windows Vista that will work in a way that is compatible with desktop composition. Essentially allowing direct access to the GPU for hardware accellaration, but then having the final surface that appears to be the front buffer to the application actually be a shared surface that gets composed by the DWM
source Basically, OpenGL on Vista is indeed 'no problem' once the IHVs get their Vista ICDs into effect and working. I suspect both NV and ATI will make this a high priority. The important point is the bit in bold, this means that OpenGL and the Aeroglass window manager will work nicely side by side, meaning nice alpha blended windows and that all the scare mongering on the OpenGL website by various users is indeed FUD. Now, lets put an end to the OpenGL on Vista is going to be a problem rumours can we? [smile] [Edited by - phantom on March 11, 2006 10:55:07 AM]

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#2 bpoint   Members   -  Reputation: 464

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:25 PM

Hooray! There _is_ alot of FUD going around, and it's good to hear how it will really be implemented.

Thanks for the link, phantom.

#3 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7195

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:34 PM

Not at all surprising. The alarmist bullshit on OpenGL.org was, well, just that.

I'm curious though, why do they mention legacy ICDs? My understanding was that after the NT rewrite and the move the LDDM, old drivers were completely broken, which would mean that legacy ICDs would be broken as well.

#4 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3555

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:35 PM

Good to know. Best news I've read in a long time. I was wondering if I was going to have to switch over to Direct3D eventually.

-VD, OpenGL for life.

#5 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7279

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:40 PM

Quote:
Original post by Promit
I'm curious though, why do they mention legacy ICDs? My understanding was that after the NT rewrite and the move the LDDM, old drivers were completely broken, which would mean that legacy ICDs would be broken as well.


I guess its to allow for old hardware which wont get an update to work, to allow people to move over if they want on it?

I'm sure someone somewhere did a cost-benifit anaylsis and it came up as a good idea..

#6 hplus0603   Moderators   -  Reputation: 5309

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 01:55 PM

If that's true, then that's good news! And, considering the "alarmist bullsh!t," perhaps the fact that some highly visible players made vocal noises about the previous plan is one reason we're getting the good news? It's hard to know.

#7 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7279

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 02:12 PM

well, the source looks pretty legit so I'd say it was true and I suspect we are getting the information now because this is when they planned to say it, once things had been nailed down and information made avaible to IHV.. the OpenGL thread died out ages ago really to little or not effect, and the Vista ICD must have been 'in the works' for a while now, as it doesnt seem to be something you can just 'hack in' in a few months..

Looks like the ball is very much in the IHVs court now, assuming MS have given them all the relivent details.

#8 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7195

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 05:00 PM

Actually, now that I think of it, one of the WinHEC presentations said that XPDDM would still be there for back-compat. Completely forgot about that.

#9 RenderTarget   Members   -  Reputation: 398

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 05:11 PM

Quote:
Original post by Promit
Actually, now that I think of it, one of the WinHEC presentations said that XPDDM would still be there for back-compat. Completely forgot about that.


Yeah. MS isn't about to destroy support for all the old devices that users have, even if the hardware reqs for Vista are higher. Back-compat is one of their locks.

#10 N64Marin   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 10:32 PM

I'm so happy hearing this. I love OpenGL and don't want to see Graphics API market been dominated by M$.

#11 md_lasalle   Members   -  Reputation: 190

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 07:11 AM

If you don't want to see Microsoft getting the big part of the market....please stop using their products...

When you choose your OS, it's like voting for something, same thing as buying at Walmart instead of encouraging the small local business.

#12 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7195

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 07:12 AM

Quote:
Original post by md_lasalle
When you choose your OS, it's like voting for something, same thing as buying at Walmart instead of encouraging the small local business.
Why bother encouraging the small local business if it give you second rate products, or lousy service?

#13 md_lasalle   Members   -  Reputation: 190

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 07:18 AM

Quote:
Original post by Promit
Quote:
Original post by md_lasalle
When you choose your OS, it's like voting for something, same thing as buying at Walmart instead of encouraging the small local business.
Why bother encouraging the small local business if it give you second rate products, or lousy service?


True, but in most cases, the local market, since it's smaller will be able to give a better service, and for the product quality it's really case specific.

If I continu with the Walmart exemple, these products are crappy AND the service is really poor.


#14 N64Marin   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 02:09 AM

Good news, we can continue using OpenGL as a first class graphics API.
So, M$ can't do anything, isn't it.
By the way, I hate Direct3D.




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