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Argh! Windows!


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#1 Xelius   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 17 August 1999 - 08:07 AM

Hey everyone. I have need a simple answer to a complex problem. (Or is a complex answer to...nevermind ;-)) Anyway, my problem is that when I started programming, it was DOS all the way, and anyone that wanted to program in Windows had to buy really expensive software. (At least, expensive in the view that I was in 7th grade, and that my parents know absolutely nothing about computers, so they weren't going to spend the money) Now, it's very cheap to buy anything that makes windows programs. My problem, however, is that I absolutely HATE Windows. Not only on usability, but also in programming. I HATE, I HATE, I HATE, (one more) I HATE WINDOWS! But, I do like PC's, so I have 2 options: 1) I shut my mouth, and learn Windows, or 2) I start using Linux. Right now, I've decided to program in Windows, so my question is this:
Has anyone figured out the secret to making it make sense? Or does it always have this mysterious fog surrounding it, that not even Bill Gates himself can control anymore? ;-)
Please, someone, let me know, okay?

Thank you.

-=Xelius=-


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#2 Zer   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 14 August 1999 - 10:11 PM

Yes here is a solution. www.be.com (or www.bedope.com, that site is funny)
Don't use Linux OR Windows, the BeOS programmer newsgroup makes it sound like its VERY easy to program for and besides it looks nifty.

#3 jens   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 15 August 1999 - 12:14 AM

hi,
I don't think progamming for Windows is so difficult. If you already know some C or even C++ from DOS, it shouldn't be a problem.
Try to get a book or at least some samples and play around with them. If you have any special problem, you can ask.
If you used PASCAL or BASIC or whatever, you should think about learning C++.
I have not worked with Linux much, but I'm sure programming under a GUI like KDE is not much simpler than working with windows.

ciao...
...jens


#4 Arfa   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 15 August 1999 - 01:59 AM

Windows programming is evil! Go for Linux every time

Having said that, Xlib isn't the easiest thing to program in either, so...

If you want to make your life easier, get a GUI toolkit, such as Qt or EasyGTK+. There are versions for X-Windows and MS Windows (and probably BeOS too).

These aren't going to help you if you want to program games though. Best trick is to use a game library such as GGI/GII or Allegro. Allegro is your best bet, since it allows you to write Windows games without knowing anything about Windows programming at all (the code is usually no different from the DOS code). It's what I use

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=> Arfa <=


#5 Dæmin   Members   -  Reputation: 128

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Posted 15 August 1999 - 04:02 AM

Windows programming does suck, majorly.
But there's a small trick that I have read about where you can turn windows with directX into basically DOS. I read it in an article called "DirectX-tasy" by Andre' LaMothe. I haven't actually been bothered from programming DirectX yet since school keeps me busy enough from that, but the article is a decent read and it might help in your quest.
Plus that way it'll be easier for you to port your game form DOS to windows.

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-Dom:)
Visit - http://www.eisa.net.au/~sdgrab/contents.html


#6 NuFAN   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 15 August 1999 - 04:04 AM

BEOS : Coding in BeOS is easy, no difficult GUI, no problematic stuff around, so it's good for learning real, portable C.

LINUX : If you want to become a game-coder - and I think you want to, if you post on sites like this one - you shouldn't learn coding under Linux, because there's no market. Mostly Linux is used for webservers and some normal applications, but not for games. And you will have to sell your games, and if there is no market, you won't sell them ----> you won't earn money.

WINDOWS : It's easy to step in, forget the old DOS stuff you've learned. It's the os to code for, there's a hugh market and many tools that can help you. All games are developed for Windows and it'll be the most used OS for many years, maybe in a few years you'll use Win2014.

All in all, Windows is easy after you stepped in. You've got several API's to use, which make things pretty fast, and they're not that hard to use. You can learn OpenGL which you can use on several other systems, too, ... you won't have any memory problems, ... the next generation compiler will be something like C++ Builder, I guess, so creating GUI and some components will be just drag & drop.

CU

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Skullpture Entertainment
#40842461


#7 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 15 August 1999 - 05:26 AM

The transition is one that I made and I found there were pros.

Perhaps the first thing I had to come to terms with was dispensing with my low level graphics routines and adopting something like DirectX or Opengl.

Pros

- It saved time (in the long run).
- I no longer had to be overly concerned with hardware compatibility issues.
- There's some good info around on the subject.

NB: Use native Win32 and Directx (or Opengl). There's a standard layout for establishing your apps parent window, event handling, errors, enumerating modes...the list goes on. You'll see more or less the same code replicated in all code samples. Get this out of the way and you can get into the real stuff.

Perhaps the real question now is how do you make your code platform independant, such that it can run on either windows or Linux.

A comment on Linux - It's leaping up the chart in terms of acceptance - check out Redhat! (plug )

A good place to start - go to www.looneygames.com and check out the articles by Chris Hargrove (3DRealms) - Code on the cob. Chris has produced some excellent examples of platform independant code and you can get the standard windows stuff as well.

My final comment - make the change. If you have been DOS coding then you'll have a good base to start from.

/Cygnus


#8 ScruffyTheCat   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 16 August 1999 - 05:05 PM

Look, this will get me some flames but hey what the hell. If you want to program and actually get a job doing it -- especially in the game realm -- bite the bullet and learn windows programming. I'm not saying it's the best OS -- simply the most common and most marketable. Get two books -- "Windows Game Programming For Dummies" or "Tricks of the Game Programming Gurus Part 2" both by Andre Lamothe AND Charles Petzold's "Programming Windows 95" The First is a good windows/directX/game programming primer, the second is not out yet so no comment, the third is the bible of windows programming -- unless you have a special masochistic desire to learn MFC. That's my advice. I'm not gonna knock any other OS's but if you wanna get a job or make money learn windows..


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L8R

Scruffy

[This message has been edited by felisandria (edited August 17, 1999).]


#9 Zenroth   Members   -  Reputation: 127

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Posted 16 August 1999 - 08:31 PM

I agree with Scruffy on this,if you want a job learn windows programming. It may not be the best(but IMHO its alot better than dos no drivers to write compatability and acceleration are major pluses) ,but its the major OS right now and probally well be for awhile. Is it that hard to learn windows programming? From my own experince of leaving dos/allegro and learning win/directx no. It took me about a week to have most of the basics down pack. As far as anyhing specific goes msvc++ help is a major help. I mean i fiqured out how to dynamicly load dll's from the help file alone. Anyways good luck however you decide to go. Just get outa dos its dead and has been.

L8R


#10 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 17 August 1999 - 08:06 AM

Wow.. this actually prompted a lot of responses. It's not that windows is hard, it's time consuming. And I have had 2 jobs in the computer industry, and I'm 17. I guess that's good. They were both internships. The first one was an internship by name, but it was really me becoming a "junior" programmer for the company. I actually coded, but it was in QNX, another UNIX spin-off. Thankfully the GUI that they used was actually fairly easy. This job I have now, at Computer Associates, however, is a real internship, which means no coding! :-( However, it's a good thing, because it'd all be in Win32, and they do pay well ;-)
*sigh* Windows it is...I'm grounded this week, so maybe learn Win32 to pass the time. Thanks everyone.

-=mike=-


#11 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 17 August 1999 - 08:07 AM

Boy I ramble a lot don't I... :-)




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