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Java Games?


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#1 Hispanic91   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:03 AM

I have heard bits and pieces of jave game programming. But is java suitable for game programming? What are the advantages and dissavantages? Because I want to make a MMORPG(I think I got it right lol) combination RPG and I want to know which language is the best.

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#2 stecal849   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:20 AM

Hi

Languages are tools. You could make a MMORPG/RPG/Beat-em-up in javascript if you really wanted but like using your fists to hammer nails into walls - its not the best of ideas.

Several games have been ported to Java from C++ and run quite efficiently. I see no reason - if you possess the abilities - to write whatever you want in Java.

Check out http://www.bytonic.de/html/jake2.html as one example


Regards,

Ste

#3 Vegettex   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:48 AM

Hmm interesting to see if you want to make (i.m.h.o) one of the toughest games around and you want to use java because you've heard that you could use it for game programming. Well is java suitable for making a mmorpg, like stecal849 said, ahwell, you could use java for it indeed (not what I would take but that is my opinion). The advantages of java...well...eum? it is quite easy to learn (you will be spending a hell of a lot of time in the java api pages, but after some months, perhaps years (when you do it by yourself). Disadvantages, well java is definitely slower then languages like c++ or c# and I think that the support for making a MMORPG with java is less then when you are going to use c++ (or something familiar).

I would really like to see the result :)

Good luck!

ps. This is NOT a post to bash your idea about making a mmorpg but you really need to be aware of the fact that it is really much work.

#4 gsmaster   Members   -  Reputation: 120

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:50 AM

I see a lot of people jump in wanting to make MMORPG's, atleast 15 a day. How many get past the first day? Maybe .01% of em.

#5 Hispanic91   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:56 AM

Quote:
Original post by Vegettex

Good luck!

ps. This is NOT a post to bash your idea about making a mmorpg but you really need to be aware of the fact that it is really much work.


I know LOL I appreciate the feedback. What inspired me is one game, maybye you have heard of it, Runescape (www.runescape.com) Runescape is done in JAVA

#6 gsmaster   Members   -  Reputation: 120

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:58 AM

Alas, I have heard that a lot too.

Keep in mind, the original Runescape itself(2d, you know) had around 15 guys on it, if not more.
The current has a lot of people(I'd say around 40+) and takes a lot of money to run. 100 servers * A couple thousand dollars a year? =)

#7 programwizard   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 12:29 PM

Quote:
Original post by Hispanic91
What inspired me is one game, maybye you have heard of it, Runescape (www.runescape.com) Runescape is done in JAVA


No offense, but everyone is inspired to make a MMORPG by RuneScape. These are the kids who have wanted to program games their whole lives, see RuneScape, think they can do better, find out how hard it really is, and give up and move on. If you do get past the initial hump and stick it out, you will not be able to jump in and make a MMORPG right away; you have to start by making smaller projects, like Pong, Tetris, etc. Once you have that down, you can move on to more complex games, like a platformer or RPG. After a few years of experience, you will then be ready to dive in and make a half-decent MMORPG.

That being said, Java would be an excellent language to start with, especially if you are hooked on the idea of having your game playable in the browser (in edition to Java Applets, you might want to look in to Java Web Start). Remember, if you find that Java is not your cup of tea, you can always fall back on C# or C++, or any other language that can draw to the screen, get input from a keyboard, and network with other PC's, because in the end, that's all you need to make a MMORPG.

Hope that helps... and good luck!
------------------------------Support the Blue Skies in Games Campaign!A blog... of sorts.As a general rule, if you don't have a general rule in your signature, you aren't as awesome as someone who does. General rules roxor teh big one one ones.

#8 Sazaar   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 12:43 PM

alas i have played runescape alot and it took them years to get where they are today, so dont get your hopes up, java was my first "real" programming language and it made learning c++ a breaze, but get ready for hours of fustration with the DOS commands and the java api they are a pain really, i would suggest making a MUD based rpg so you can learn if statments loops etc. i also suggest getting java books from barnes and noble for about 20-39 bucks pretty cheap! gl, have fun, and dont quit imaging one day you may be able to make your own runescape, just go throught the long nights and headaches like the rest of us :D
--------------------------- -- To Each His Own! -- Please Add to my rating if you think i helped you out! --

#9 Hispanic91   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 02:40 PM

Quote:
Original post by gsmaster
Alas, I have heard that a lot too.

Keep in mind, the original Runescape itself(2d, you know) had around 15 guys on it, if not more.
The current has a lot of people(I'd say around 40+) and takes a lot of money to run. 100 servers * A couple thousand dollars a year? =)


That is true, but if eventually I do get this game up and running I will run it off a cheap PC and use it as a web server. Im not talking have hundreds in different cities and have members and non member servers LOL.

#10 Vegettex   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 10:07 PM

Quote:
Original post by Hispanic91That is true, but if eventually I do get this game up and running I will run it off a cheap PC and use it as a web server. Im not talking have hundreds in different cities and have members and non member servers LOL.


I hope your cheap pc can handle the load :)

#11 rohde   Members   -  Reputation: 432

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 10:35 PM

Well I will not go into the whole MMORPG issue of the post. But yes Java is suitable for game programming, even a MMORPG (the game logic of Star Wars Galaxies is written in Java for instance). If later on you need to (for performance reasons) you can implement the graphic subsytem in C or C++, but start with Java and see how it fits you. If you need pointers on the litterature let me recommend "Killer Game Programming in Java".

Good luck - and keep us updated on your MMORPG [smile]
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." -Francois de La Rochefoucauld (1613 - 1680). | My blog

#12 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:19 AM

Quote:
Original post by Vegettex
Disadvantages, well java is definitely slower then languages like c++ or c# and I think that the support for making a MMORPG with java is less then when you are going to use c++ (or something familiar).


What makes you think Java is slower than C#? The 'C' in the name?

Nowadays with the enhancements in the VM Java is close to C in performance. Don't even come with a "benchmark" that runs for 10s, that's not sufficient for the VM to start doing its work. In long running applications, such as a game, the performance will be better than C#.


#13 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:37 AM

Quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Quote:
Original post by Vegettex
Disadvantages, well java is definitely slower then languages like c++ or c# and I think that the support for making a MMORPG with java is less then when you are going to use c++ (or something familiar).


What makes you think Java is slower than C#? The 'C' in the name?

Nowadays with the enhancements in the VM Java is close to C in performance. Don't even come with a "benchmark" that runs for 10s, that's not sufficient for the VM to start doing its work. In long running applications, such as a game, the performance will be better than C#.


java and C# are pretty equal, with JIT thrown in both will be fast enough for games. most AAA games today are limited by the GPU anyway.

C++ will probably always be a bit faster since it isn't compiled at runtime.
(thus the compiler can spend more time optimizing without annoying the user).

using a simple ./configure, make, make install approach you would get a program optimized for the users hardware just as you would with JIT compilation. (could be tricky to do on windows though, but its theoretically possible).

the speed difference isn't really big so even if you choose a "slower" language
(note, its not really the language that is slow, but a modern C++ compiler beats the current java server VMs JIT compiler) you'd probably won't notice any difference unless you benchmark it.

if you don't want to release the source and are using C++ you would have to choose a platform to optimize for, or release multiple binaries. (AMD64, IA32 etc). (ofcourse if the game isn't extremely demanding its better to simply optimize it for an older architecture so that it doesn't rely on new processor features).

as for java,C++ or C# i would definitly recomend java. (its been around longer than C# and is pretty mature these days). you get the nice extra advantage that your game will run perfectly on macOSX and linux aswell as windows without any extra work. for an independant MMO its always good to be avaliable to those audiences aswell. (They don't get that many games so the competition isn't as fierce).

the server and client doesn't necessarily have to be made using the same language. making the server in C++ can be a good idea to be able to squeeze every last drop out of your hardware, (and since you are in control of your server upgrades keeping the server binaries optimized for your current hardware isn't a problem).

most importantly however is to use a language you are familiar with. using an mmorpg to learn a new language isn't a good idea.




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