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We're offering banner ads on our site from just $5! Don't forget to read Tuesday's email newsletter for your chance to win a free copy of Construct 2! # Windows XP Old topic! Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic. 515 replies to this topic ### #41Staffan Members - Reputation: 122 Like Likes Like Posted 26 February 2001 - 03:25 AM quote: Original post by Dire.Wolf It''s funny when people say Windows isn''t as stable as Linux. What version of Windows are you talking about? Windows 9x? Windows 2000? If you are comparing Linux and Windows 2000 then you have a problem. Windows 2000 is just as stable, if not more than Linux AND it is more usable (and can handle games too). Windows 98 SE was as stable as a rock for me. Windows Millenium gives me numerous problems but Windows 2000 Pro is rock solid. Dire Wolf www.digitalfiends.com Did you ever run *nix? Okay, so if Windows 2000 is more stable than Linux (which I highly doubt, it hasn''t crashed once on me..nor hung or locked away alot of memory for some obscure reason) is it also more stable than, say, FreeBSD? It''s also a mystery how a OS that comes with it''s UI built in can be more stable than unix that just comes with a simple consolem, seeing that the UI is the part that''s usually more buggy. Linux''s also seems to be poor peoples choice - it doesn''t need a dual quadbazillium pentium 9 with two tb ram to run smoothly, nor does it cost anything. Windows costs quite a bit if you''re not pirating it, which i suspect many do. phueppl1: Why don''t you just dual-boot? If you don''t feel like repartitioning your drive you can have Linux live on your dos partition. Go for Slackware and throw away RH and suse Seriously, try both and use whatever suits you best. I tried RH back in the 2.0.34 days, that was in 1998 i reckon, but I never really liked it. And RPMs were kinda usless since I always get the source tarball when there is one - and I only have one closed source software installed (which is blender). Bash (and likely others, like csh, tsch or zsh) is also way superior two dos/windows command.com. Just tab tab tab your way through the entire fs architecture . And page up so you won''t have to be using anything such as the /P switch that command line programs from microsoft came with. There are games for Linux too! www.lokigames.com www.freeciv.org - Great game www.tuxracer.org and xbill hehe If you care about security closed-source software might also be a bad choice, since it might take some days or months before there''s a new version or new service pack. With open-source you can always correct the problem yourself or get the latest kernel patch or whatever you need very soon. One thing that bothers me is that you cannot mount your ext2 (etc.) partitions in Windows. That really pisses me off. I only use Windows for playing BGII at the moment anyways. "This album was written, recorded and edited at Gröndal, Stockholm in the year of 2000. At this point in time money still ruled the world. Capitalistic thoughts were wide spread. From the sky filled with the fumes of a billionarie''s cigar to the deepest abyss drenched in nuclear waste. A rich kid was a happy kid, oh..dirty, filthy times. Let this be a reminder." - Fireside, taken from back of the Elite album Sponsor: ### #42kressilac Members - Reputation: 110 Like Likes Like Posted 26 February 2001 - 05:36 AM Linux isn''t for everyone. Windows2K is stable and runs rather nice on my machine at home. Aside from SoundBlaster Driver issues that is. .NET, WindowsXP and Office XP are all just upgrades to previous products. Many corporations still use WindowsNT and Office 97. Just because Microsoft releases a new product doesn''t meant that you have to go right out and buy it. Visual Studio 6.0 and Office 2000 running on Windows 2K is enough for me to create games. It will be at least two more years before .NET fully takes ahold of the developer community. Many games today are still being written for 9x platforms and aside from relying on backward compatibility these games aren''t certified on Windows ME or Win2K. My point here, is if the piece of software fits your NEEDS then stick with it and don''t upgrade. Why spend the money on something you do not need. (ditto P4s from Intel. PIIIs are fine and they are cheaper) Speak with your wallet. I for one do not need the newest Office suite that can cook my breakfast if I wire it to my house. I don''t need more than VisualC++ 6.0 and until I can''t compile for the windows platform using Visual Studio, I will probably not update. The real problem is not in their new practices, it is what Microsoft does to force people that bought its software, to repurchase by changing the architecture and invalidating their older software. The back-end of the curve is what gets me. I can choose to not use the front end of the curve. Derek [ COLOR="#A0A0A0">Kressilac ] Licciardidirection="right" WIDTH="160">COLOR="#006555">Elysian Productions, Inc ### #43LordElectro Members - Reputation: 122 Like Likes Like Posted 26 February 2001 - 06:40 AM Thx, ill post the banner in my sig asap~ Edited by - LordElectro on February 26, 2001 1:44:38 PM ### #44wrenhal Members - Reputation: 122 Like Likes Like Posted 26 February 2001 - 06:44 AM quote: Original post by mr BiCEPS Is that a troll? Probably, since he just registered on the 23rd. BeS It''s Da BOMB Baby!!! . o O ~ A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~ O o . -- Willy Wonka ### #45Big B Members - Reputation: 337 Like Likes Like Posted 26 February 2001 - 08:17 AM Can anybody name any companies that have made most of its money by selling apps (not games) for home computers? Only one comes to mind: Microsoft If you decide to go into the apps market for home users, be prepaerd for failure. Corel was doing well when it had Corel Draw 3 out. Everyone had a (pirated) copy of that. Now, the only thing keeping them afloat is a large cash infusion by, guess who, M$.

If anyone can name a company, I'd like to hear it.

What really bugs me about Windows, at least 95, is that when you upgrade your computer, there is barely an improvement.
I installed 95 on my new computer (700 Athalon) but wanted to get the files from the old puter (PI 166). I switched them on at the same time, and the 700 took as much time as the 166, despite the fact that it has 4 times more RAM and more than 3 times the speed. WTF!

Edited by - Big B on February 26, 2001 3:26:10 PM

### #46Mongo  Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 09:27 AM

I have a few things to add to that.

First of all, Windows XP is supposed to be an OS for the average home or small business user who does not have the technical expertise to maintain a FULL-FLEDGED operating system. Note the stress on FULL-FLEDGED. So, yes, it is made for people who are not computer literate. This, however, does not excuse the "renting" issue. I disagree completely with that.

With the new improvements in version 8, DirectX is becoming more and more popular. If you are a developer and you use DirectX, you will eventually have to use Windows XP even if only as a test platform. That means you''ll suddenly have a greater monthly overhead because you are "renting" this software. As long as you use DirectX, you have to rent Windows.

AHA! As for the stability of windows and the windows vs. linux issue...
I''ve compiled, no... assembled a list of faults from both Windows 98/2k and Linux. I have to rebuild my Windows 98 box every month because it will no longer function. I have never had to do this with a linux box. Windows 2k is more stable than 98, requiring a rebuild every 2 or 3 months. I run Windows 98 SE and Linux as the same machine, dual boot. I tried win 2k for a while in place of 98, but gave up shortly after issue #9 occurred.

Issues in Windows 98SE/2k:
1. 98: Windows won''t shut down. It hangs.
2. 98: The Start button doesn''t say "Start." It is a random mix of colors that change every time it''s clicked.
3. 98 and 2k: Icons randomly disguise themselves as other icons.
4. 2k: Explorer crashes during idle time. The desktop color is displayed for a few seconds before the applications reappear.
5. 2k: The desktop refuses to repaint itself.
6. 2k: The cursor is replaced with a square blob of corruption.
7. 98: The clock stops working.
8. 98: Hyperterminal won''t start. Ever. Illegal operation.
9. 2k: Instantly reboots when the Refresh button is clicked in Internet Explorer.

Issues witn Linux-Mandrake and Redhat 6.2:
1.

I''m sorry. I can''t think of any Linux issues that weren''t caused by my own ignorant actions.

### #47 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 09:47 AM

### #49Null and Void  Moderators   -  Reputation: 1087

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 10:49 AM

quote:
Original post by Mongo
With the new improvements in version 8, DirectX is becoming more and more popular. If you are a developer and you use DirectX, you will eventually have to use Windows XP even if only as a test platform. That means you''ll suddenly have a greater monthly overhead because you are "renting" this software. As long as you use DirectX, you have to rent Windows.

That''s why I use Microsoft independent API''s .

quote:
Original post by Mongo
3. 98 and 2k: Icons randomly disguise themselves as other icons.

Yeah, I''ve seen Win2K do that, I think it is a bug with the active desktop (it goes away if I refresh it). I haven''t seen the rest of the errors you''re having though.

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

### #50Knife Guy  Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 10:56 AM

N&V, how do I look?

Knife Guy

### #51Null and Void  Moderators   -  Reputation: 1087

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 11:05 AM

Nice . If anyone wants to draw a better banner, feel free to post it, heh.

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

### #52gimp  Members   -  Reputation: 142

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 11:19 AM

I'm a systems engineer at an investment bank (yes MCSE)... EVERY single company I have worked for runs automated builds (unattended setups). These setups REQUIRE that all questions are answered in an ini file. We don't change that unless we have to. I work with servers so only install a few times a week but the desktop boys do it a dozen times a day. When rolling out a new OS to a department we have hundreds happening each weekend. I don't know how MS will expect this to work, and it wont.

I rebuild machines at 4am on a sunday morning if thats what the business requires, I'm on call 7*24. MS will have to be responsive on demand for those times as well with a very fast reponse time. I can't see this working for my company.

You know what that means? There will be a back door there somewhere. What about people like my mother in law with no modem who only uses the PC for the encyclopedia? There will be a back door and once there is a way around this system that 'way' will turn in to a little exe that you run on your i386 to 'patch' the install.

I'm not worried..

As for stability, I've mentioned this before here, a few months back when installing a Tivoli client on a server I noticed that it had racked up about 9000 hours in the idle thread, which means it could have been up for nearly a year.(NT4) My home machine has flipped a few times(2000) but normally flipps out when I'm debugging fullscreen opengl apps (pretty nasty thing to do anyway). In our server environment the most unstable element is the hardware drivers.

I'm happy so far but I WON'T be calling up MS at 4am on a sunday morning for a f**king licence key...

gimp-o

PS: I'd also like to not that I code using OpenGL and SDL. My game should work equally well on macos, beos, linux , win32 etc, etc. My income and career might depend on MS but my game will not. Does that say something?

Edited by - gimp on February 26, 2001 6:27:14 PM

### #53Anonypous Moster  Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 11:26 AM

It''s funny, one of the worst responses you can give in an MCSE exam is to reboot the server. That''s a big no-no according to MS.

### #54Shannon Barber  Moderators   -  Reputation: 1383

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 11:58 AM

Until NT4 SP5? or 6? you had to reboot the server just to change a friggin ip address!

...
quote:

Original post by Furby100
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original post by Magmai Kai Holmlor
I thought BIOS stood for Built-In Operating System?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ha ha! Who told you that load of rubbish? Everyone knows it is Basic Input/Output System! Ha ha! Magmai didn''t know!

The ''trend'' is to call it a built-in OS - it''s friggin flash upgradable, sometimes has a redundant backup, has a couple of transducers plugged in to monitor the hardware (thermalcouples & tachometers), auto-configures the IO ports & IRQs, detects the cpu type & even the required voltage supply, auto-finds harddrives & CDROMs & LS120 & & &... maybe someday you''ll just it on and a Java BIOS will just run Embedded devices that stomp characters on the screen from a rom and boot from one or maybe two sources, and require a pile of dop-switches & jumpers for configuration are basic IO.

...
quote:

If you are a developer and you use DirectX, you will eventually have to use Windows XP even if only as a test platform. That means you''ll suddenly have a greater monthly overhead because you are "renting" this software.

Well, odds are decent that you have an MSDN subsciption, and most the ''levels'' come with beta & release versions of the OS precisely for the purpose of testing (and non-other btw :p). So it won''t cost you any more as a developer, unless you previously tested on pirated copies... or bought full versions.

...
quote:

Yeah, I''ve seen Win2K do that, I think it is a bug with the active desktop (it goes away if I refresh it). I haven''t seen the rest of the errors you''re having though.

You have never seen WinBlows hang when shutting down!? It''s like a M$version of groundhogs day ffs! ... And M$ is not on the home-builders side. They have taken a number of steps to make it more difficult to build a PC & install Windows on it. After all, if you continually upgrade your PC, and don''t buy OEM, they don''t get more money for you to have two or more licenses of Windows. And the rumor is that Bill Gates is not the richest man on Earth anymore.

Magmai Kai Holmlor
- The disgruntled & disillusioned

### #55Null and Void  Moderators   -  Reputation: 1087

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 12:14 PM

Actually, (for some unknown reason, it's better not to ask I decided) the copy of Win2K Prof. that I was given for Christmas is an OEM copy. When I called tech. support the Microsoft Lady went off when I read her the product ID. I didn't even know it was OEM until I read the ID . So, they refused to help me, and I eventually figured out that Win2K is suppossed to reboot on system error by default (and how to turn it off).

"Finger to spiritual emptiness underlying everything." -- How a C manual referred to a "pointer to void." --Things People Said

http://www.gdarchive.net/druidgames/

Edited by - Null and Void on February 26, 2001 7:15:49 PM

### #56 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 12:38 PM

windows is a stable operating system. Generally video drivers or something else is the cause of problems. I have had win95 run for like three years without crashing ONCE. My win98 hasn''t crashed either except in three seperate cases which I identified and corrected (my video driver, which was not the right driver for my card, had a memory leak; adobe acrobat has a memory leak (but IE using acrobat doesn''t, not sure how that works); Age of Kings somehow locks up my cd drive) I never ever have a random crash. Ever. I though I did but I traced it to my video driver. The other two are programs that I choose to run.

### #57Xtreme  Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 01:30 PM

Anon, i think you hardly ever run applications on your windows os. Maybe its just idling away doing nothing but running SETI in the background? Or you''re probably just running MS WORD.

What I mean is to see how stable windows is, try running multiple applications at the same time and see how windows reacts to it.

### #58CGameProgrammer  Members   -  Reputation: 640

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 01:32 PM

That means the Acrobat executable has an error, but the plugin (a seperate file, different code) does not.

~CGameProgrammer( );

### #59Vetinari  Members   -  Reputation: 133

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 03:21 PM

Microsoft''s move is toward uncrackable rentable applications. They are uncrackable because some of the code is going to be on hte server side . This is their so called ''web application'' idea. It''s not going to happen tommorrow, but this is their goal (see below).

Their transistion plans (like so many of their business plans) is sheer genious. They will offer WordXP in both rentable and non-rentable versions. I''m not sure if WordXP will have server side code. And of course, they are first going for the corporations, which are capable of using such a product.

Their ultimate goal seems to be completely custimized, rentable software with server side code. Let me paraphrase the example I read. Let''s say you want Excel, but you don''t need all those macros that come with it. So you choose the macros you need (and the number you pick changed the overall rental price). These macros are all server side, so the server can check if you have the rights to the particular macro or not (read ''web services'').

That is the foundation of the whole .NET framework. Obviously consumers are not ready for this, but MS has never been a shortsighted company. I think MS is scared of putting out a product that they cannot improve enough to entice sales of an upgraded version. Whether this will ever work remains to be seen. But remember one of the larger driving applications of PC sales (AOL) is both server side and rental.

As for the antitrust suit, forcing consumers that buy windows to also buy internet explorer was illegal (you think IE is free!?). They were told by the court to sell them seperatly, and MS basically said fuck no, we''ll do what we want.

Mike

### #60 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 26 February 2001 - 04:32 PM

running IE, Windows Explorer, CodeWarrior and PaintShop Pro, and Notepad all at once sometimes, no bugs. The stability of windows varies greatly from computer to computer. Generally I''ve seen that once it gets a little unstable it quickly spirals out of control and becomes unusable, so that''s why I think there are so many who think it is unstable. Maybe like 20% have bad computers and so they speak up, while the rest of us are fine. Sure 20% is really horrible, but if you fall into that category just reinstall and carefully pick your drivers and don''t install whatever it was that made trouble in the first place. I''ve only had to reinstall once since maybe 96 when I first started using windows (the video driver issue) and other than that things have been fine.

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