Quote:It's what happens when we discover that we really, _really_ suck at just getting along.

Just getting along with the likes of Saddam isn't something to be vocally proud about either, morally speaking.

Quote:Original post by Diodor

Quote:It's what happens when we discover that we really, _really_ suck at just getting along.

Just getting along with the likes of Saddam isn't something to be vocally proud about either, morally speaking.

Saddam is another symptom of our failure as a species if you ask me. [smile]

Quote:Original post by skittleo

Quote:Original post by Spoonbender
yes, I'll tell these civilians how well the military protected them against 9/11.

Yeah, and since 9/11 how many terrorist attacks have succeeded against the United States? Thanks.

We had a military when the WTC attacks happened, so it must not be that great a deterrant.

Also, red paper clips don't prevent mosquito bites despite the fact that I have red paper clips in my office and have never been bitten by a mosquito in here. "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" is a fallacy.

Preventing terrorist attacks requires more from intelligence agencies than military might. We need spies and detectives, not the "Hulk Smash!" approach. [smile]

Quote:Original post by LessBread
Of course I'm serious. How many people have died while flipping burgers? How many people lost limbs while flipping burgers? How many people got thrown in jail for not showing up to work flipping burgers? I never said anything about some hypothetical teenage father being better off flipping burgers than joining the military. That joke is yours.

I do not see the relevance of the risks involved nor the legal obligations incurred as to whether our military exploits the poor. My point is really that you can't point to the disproportionate representation of the poor in the military as proof of exploitation of the poor. If you want to argue casualities and injuries as proof then, to me, you need show something like that those from poor backgrounds are more likely to be killed or injured than those from other backgrounds. If you want to argue the legal obligations then you need to show that those from poor backgrounds are more likely to signup under less favorable terms than those from other backgrounds.

There are many arguements that I might be receptive to but simply pointing out that people die in Iraq isn't one of them. I'm not going to write to my congressman saying, oh my god, soldiers are dieing in Iraq, we need to stop the military from exploiting the poor. I maintain that the poor are disproportionately represented in the military because they have disproportionately fewer opportunties in our society and the military isn't one of them.

Quote:Original post by LilBudyWizer

Quote:Original post by LessBread
Of course I'm serious. How many people have died while flipping burgers? How many people lost limbs while flipping burgers? How many people got thrown in jail for not showing up to work flipping burgers? I never said anything about some hypothetical teenage father being better off flipping burgers than joining the military. That joke is yours.

I do not see the relevance of the risks involved nor the legal obligations incurred as to whether our military exploits the poor. My point is really that you can't point to the disproportionate representation of the poor in the military as proof of exploitation of the poor. If you want to argue casualities and injuries as proof then, to me, you need show something like that those from poor backgrounds are more likely to be killed or injured than those from other backgrounds. If you want to argue the legal obligations then you need to show that those from poor backgrounds are more likely to signup under less favorable terms than those from other backgrounds.

There are many arguements that I might be receptive to but simply pointing out that people die in Iraq isn't one of them. I'm not going to write to my congressman saying, oh my god, soldiers are dieing in Iraq, we need to stop the military from exploiting the poor. I maintain that the poor are disproportionately represented in the military because they have disproportionately fewer opportunties in our society and the military isn't one of them.

You can find relevant statistics on the subject of the "poverty draft" here: Military Recruitment, Communities of Color and Immigrants. Here's a relevant quote on the question of whether the military exploits the poor:

Quote:
...
According to the U.S. Army Recruiting Command's Strategic Partnership Plan for 2002-2007, "Priority areas [for recruitment] are designated primarily as the cross section of weak labor opportunities and college-age population as determined by both [the] general and Hispanic population."16
...