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C# Workshop - Introduction

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#21 shawnre   Members   -  Reputation: 266

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 03:21 AM

Thanks for the explanation jwalsh, definitely interested, as a student of course. BTW, be prepared for bunches of questions from me, if/when I don't understand something, I post all kinds of r-tard questions, lol.

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#22 BEngKohn   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:33 AM

I am interested in joining, please count me in!

#23 Mike.Popoloski   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2886

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 05:55 AM

Quote:
Original post by Rebooted
Quote:
Original post by jwalsh
As you know, C++ is very different from VB, both in syntax, and also in semantics. This is both a blessing and a curse, however, as the differences make it more difficult to learn the two languages at the same time, while making it easier to keep the two of them separate in your mind.

In contrast, C# is VERY similar to C++ in semantics, and even closer in Syntax.
Don't Visual Basic and C# have almost identical semantics? I'm sure I've seen people say VB.Net is effectively just a different syntax for C#.


I think he may be referring to the old Visual Basic, which was indeed very different from most other languages. VB.Net, however, is just another way of utilizing the .NET framework with a different syntax. They aren't exactly the same; there are some small differences between the two (C# and VB.Net, that is), but all-in-all they are functionally the same.

@JWalsh:
There are some other things that you might want to think about as you are going through the course. These are more .NET things than anything else, and although they aren't "pure C#", sometimes you need something practical when learning something like this.

Best Practices
- Such as naming conventions, boxing/unboxing, overriding ToString/GetHashCode/Equals, exception handling, garbage collection, and FxCop usage.

Collections
- The built in collections, their pros and cons, how to make your own collections / enumerators.

Reflection
MultiThreading
PInvoke
Console Input/Output
File reading and writing
XML

These topics aren't all that difficult or advanced, and while they aren't technically C# concepts, they are extremely useful and wouldn't take all that much effort to weave into the course material. Getting impressionable beginners on the right track from the start will make things much easier for both them and you as this workshop and others that may spring from it continue to progress.



#24 Chad Smith   Members   -  Reputation: 1100

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:08 AM

I'm in! I am pretty good in C++ and I have been wanting to move into C# to see what all the commotion is about. I know a little C# already but I never did begin to like C# all that much so I stayed with programming all my stuff in C++. So, I am hoping that this will help me use C# more and more and not use C++ for stuff that I not want to use it for...or heck...just use C# period until I get in college.

I can't wait for this thing to get started!

Chad



#25 JWalsh   Moderators   -  Reputation: 463

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:20 AM

Quote:
I think he may be referring to the old Visual Basic, which was indeed very different from most other languages. VB.Net, however, is just another way of utilizing the .NET framework with a different syntax. They aren't exactly the same; there are some small differences between the two (C# and VB.Net, that is), but all-in-all they are functionally the same.


Aye,

He's correct, I was referring to the old VB. With the advent of .NET and the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI), any language wishing to be .NET Compliant must expose a common set of functionality which is described in the Common Language Specification (CLS). This is why many .NET languages expand upon the keywords, syntax, and semantics of their non-.NET counterparts.

As a result, C++/CLR, C#, VB.NET, J#, JScript.NET, and a whole slew of other Non-Microsoft proprietary languages all share a common set of functionality.

If your goal is to develop using the .NET Framework any .NET compliant language will do.

However, unlike C++/CLR, VB.NET, JScript.NET, etc...C# has one distinct advantage. It was designed to be the language which the CLS was based upon.

There was no "stretching" or "expanding" of the C# language in order to get it to be compliant with the CLS.

<OPINION>
As a result, the syntax and semantics of C# often feel more natural than VB.NET and especially C++/CLR, which (to me) feels like .NET is forcing the languages to do things they weren't especially capable of doing.
</OPINION>

Hope that answers your question. Cheers!
Jeromy Walsh
Sr. Tools & Engine Programmer | Software Engineer
Microsoft Windows Phone Team
Chronicles of Elyria (An In-development MMORPG)
GameDevelopedia.com - Blog & Tutorials
GDNet Mentoring: XNA Workshop | C# Workshop | C++ Workshop
"The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?" - Il Duche, Boondock Saints

#26 Washu   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 4875

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:27 AM

Quote:
Original post by jwalsh
Quote:
I think he may be referring to the old Visual Basic, which was indeed very different from most other languages. VB.Net, however, is just another way of utilizing the .NET framework with a different syntax. They aren't exactly the same; there are some small differences between the two (C# and VB.Net, that is), but all-in-all they are functionally the same.


Aye,

He's correct, I was referring to the old VB. With the advent of .NET and the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI), any language wishing to be .NET Compliant must expose a common set of functionality which is described in the Common Language Specification (CLS). This is why many .NET languages expand upon the keywords, syntax, and semantics of their non-.NET counterparts.

As a result, C++/CLR, C#, VB.NET, J#, JScript.NET, and a whole slew of other Non-Microsoft proprietary languages all share a common set of functionality.

Yes, and technically one can do the same with the Java language framework (see Jython), the idea of writing against a fixed virtual machine is not actually a new one, but a good idea for most HLL.
Quote:

However, unlike C++/CLR, VB.NET, JScript.NET, etc...C# has one distinct advantage. It was designed to be the language which the CLS was based upon.

Be forewarned though: C# does contain non-CLS compliant types (such as unsigned integer types).
Quote:
<OPINION>
As a result, the syntax and semantics of C# often feel more natural than VB.NET and especially C++/CLR, which (to me) feels like .NET is forcing the languages to do things they weren't especially capable of doing.
</OPINION>

Possibly, C++/CLR has a lot of advantageous features that C# could do with.

#27 Unreality   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:46 AM

I'm interested in participating.

#28 drondon   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 12:41 PM

Count me in!

#29 DemonMage   Members   -  Reputation: 142

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 03:39 PM

Certainly interested in this.

#30 acidwillburnyou   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:21 PM

I'm in!

#31 harSon   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 07:54 PM

I am interested in this as well. I have taken a semester of Java roughly 6 months ago, and didn't really come away with much. Partly because of my horribly crowded schedule... Now that I have some free time I have been looking to jump back onto the programming horse. I will be practicing from now untill the start of the workshop :)

#32 Halvie   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 08:36 PM

Would like to join in on this. I am talking 12 credits this summer, but should be able to find some time.

#33 Emmanuel Deloget   Members   -  Reputation: 1381

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 02:51 AM

Count me in too. C# is a language I love, but I don't know much about it. Also, don't expect me to ask much questions - I am quite busy these days [smile]

#34 acidwillburnyou   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 03:23 AM

Quote:
Original post by acidwillburnyou
I'm in!


Btw, i'm not sure if it's been already said, but are we using a particular book? May i suggest using an online reference of some sort instead so that more people will tend to participate?

Thanks,

Karan

#35 M-E   Members   -  Reputation: 109

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 03:26 AM

Quote:
Original post by acidwillburnyou
Quote:
Original post by acidwillburnyou
I'm in!


Btw, i'm not sure if it's been already said, but are we using a particular book? May i suggest using an online reference of some sort instead so that more people will tend to participate?

Thanks,

Karan


If you read jwalsh's first post you will see that he thought the same thing, so he made the choice to do it with online reference.



#36 Ronin28   Members   -  Reputation: 164

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 03:28 AM

Sounds good i will join.

#37 Mortomes   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 03:44 AM

I'm definitely interested in the workshop. Has a signups thread been started yet?

#38 JWalsh   Moderators   -  Reputation: 463

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 04:24 AM

Quote:
Original post by Mortomes
I'm definitely interested in the workshop. Has a signups thread been started yet?


Nope, not yet. I'll create a signup thread once the C# Workshop forum is created. In the mean time, you can use this thread to express interest and enthusiasm in the workshop. As well as ask clarification questions.

The more people who are interested, the more the community becomes aware of its existence, and the more successful it will be. As was seen with the C++ Workshop, these work better the more people involved and following along.

Also, expressing interest here might help in motivating the devs to create the workshop forum. Setting these up requires a good amount of time and effort, so lets let them know it's not for nothing.

Cheers!
Jeromy Walsh
Sr. Tools & Engine Programmer | Software Engineer
Microsoft Windows Phone Team
Chronicles of Elyria (An In-development MMORPG)
GameDevelopedia.com - Blog & Tutorials
GDNet Mentoring: XNA Workshop | C# Workshop | C++ Workshop
"The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?" - Il Duche, Boondock Saints

#39 Mike.Popoloski   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2886

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 07:16 AM

I would love to help out with the workshop, if you are looking for that sort of thing.

#40 Dave FF   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 10:52 AM

Quote:
Original post by jwalsh
Quote:
Original post by Mortomes
I'm definitely interested in the workshop. Has a signups thread been started yet?


Nope, not yet. I'll create a signup thread once the C# Workshop forum is created. In the mean time, you can use this thread to express interest and enthusiasm in the workshop. As well as ask clarification questions.

The more people who are interested, the more the community becomes aware of its existence, and the more successful it will be. As was seen with the C++ Workshop, these work better the more people involved and following along.

Also, expressing interest here might help in motivating the devs to create the workshop forum. Setting these up requires a good amount of time and effort, so lets let them know it's not for nothing.

Cheers!


Jeromy,

Your C# Workshop idea looks great! I'm definitely interested. Thanks for providing this kind of service for us beginners. This is definitely a "pro bono" service on your part (and the tutors' part) that will be appreciated by many.


Dave FF







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