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A little disappointed in participation....


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#1 shawnre   Members   -  Reputation: 266

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:07 PM

Hello all, As the subject says, I am surprised at the participation level in this workshop. I just looked at the sign up thread and see 18 pages of people "participating." I got one question for all those who signed up as "students" WHERE THE HELL ARE YA?? When Week 1 started, things took off. Tons of info in that first week. So much of it was way over my head and subsequently jwalsh made a separate thread for those who are new to programming in general. Despite the depth of the comments during that first week, I still read each and every thread and reply within those threads. Now we are in Week 3, changed texts, but its still a free text. Very few people had questions in week 2, or cared to comment or ask questions if they did. Week 3 seems to have slowed way down also. This new text has lowered my question output a bit, because the text is alot easier to read and comprehend. I do however plan on reading the Specs also, just for my own additional learning. Now, I am a noob to most of this programming stuff aside from 1 year of college VB.NET, and I am sure I ask some pretty bone headed questions at times (and with enough beer consumed). I suppose I am just venting a bit, because I can see how much time and effort that was put into this workshop, and am just astounded by 18 pages of people signing up yet participation seems low. I suppose that maybe everyone just completely understands what they are reading and have absolutely no questions at all. I guess I am just venting a bit and dont mean to piss anyone off, just wanted to get that off my chest. Thanks for reading, Shawn

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#2 Prototype   Members   -  Reputation: 1336

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:20 PM

That's just common with social activities: everybody signs up, nobody turns up. Most people just vote-in to secure continuation, 'just in case'. It has always worked like that, be it with parties, rebellious gatherings, or internet programming workshops.

#3 acidwillburnyou   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:43 PM

I'm done summer school; starting this tomorrow.

#4 JWalsh   Moderators   -  Reputation: 463

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:47 PM

Indeed. It's always a little dissapointing to see how few questions there are. Especially when you consider the time commitment it takes.

To give people an idea of how much time it takes me...
  1. Read Chapters & Write Introduction: ~2 hours (x10)
  2. Write Chapter Review Questions: ~2-3 hours (x10)
  3. Write Chapter Exercises: ~3-4 hours (x10)
  4. Writing Project Description ~4-8 Hours (x5)
  5. Implement Projects ~2-5 days (x5)
On the high end, that's a max of 330 hours of work put into the workshop...not counting the time I spend answering questions.

For those doing the math, that's roughly 40, 8-hour days spent working on the Workshop. In addition to having a full-time job and family.

I do these workshops because I enjoy helping out the GDNet community, not because I'm trying to find something to do with my free time. [grin]

So if you're silently looming, but have been wanting to ask questions, please do so. It's what makes all the prep time actually worth it.

Cheers!
Jeromy Walsh
Sr. Tools & Engine Programmer | Software Engineer
Microsoft Windows Phone Team
Chronicles of Elyria (An In-development MMORPG)
GameDevelopedia.com - Blog & Tutorials
GDNet Mentoring: XNA Workshop | C# Workshop | C++ Workshop
"The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?" - Il Duche, Boondock Saints

#5 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:50 PM

I'm participating. I just read slow as dirt. Actually I should have answered those Week 1 Questions.

#6 TheTroll   Members   -  Reputation: 882

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:53 PM

I don't know how much time I have spent on the workshop. I just try to not leave a question unanswered for very long.

theTroll

#7 Chad Smith   Members   -  Reputation: 1116

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:11 PM

I came from a C++ background so I really understand what we are talking about right now. That is hwy I really have not been asking questions or anything. But I do love this workshop. Without I don't think I would have began learning C# yet.

Chad



#8 Vod   Members   -  Reputation: 184

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:17 PM

I'd also love to see more questions posted. I'm picking up a lot from reading the questions and the replies. To be perfectly honest though I'm still struggling to pick up/remember up the basic definitions ie. the differences between static & non-static and the whole concept of classes and objects. It's embarrassing considering that we are on week 3. I get to the stage where it seems to sink in & then I read something else and it goes all murky again.
I'm sure it will start to make sense and stick once I can apply it all to longer code examples -maybe the same goes for a lot of the silent participants here. Maybe once we all start writing more code people will get more confident & get more involved.
There's also the time constraints. I'm only able to study for this class in my work lunch hour and then later when the missus stops nagging me and goes to bed around midnight. What little time I have is usually spent reading the text and, for someone as slow as me to pick up the basics, I feel I have little time to post questions as I read. It's like I'm panicking to take it in and would rather repeatedly read several pages of the text in the hope that several concepts will stick rather than take the time to compose a question about each concept in the forums.
Anyway, I for one greatly appreciate all your efforts with the workshop JWalsh. Don't lose heart, the workshop will be a huge success. You wait & see...




#9 instinKt   Members   -  Reputation: 148

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 03:02 PM

I signed up and have had pretty much no input yet whatsoever, however it's due to extended work commitments currently and having aprox. 0 hrs to do anything I want/need during the week.

Things look like they're going to quieten down soon so I'm hoping to get back into it.


#10 Nicodemo99   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 02:42 AM

I'm still on it, i really dont have much time to read in the evening, i work often until 9 or later in the evening...but i really love this workshop, i really love reading threads, question and expecially anwers...

I really hope this workshop will not came to an end anticipately..i'm really amazed about 1st project!

p.s. I hope JWalsh will continue with his journal "Man vs Godz..ehm..MMORPG"

Have a nice day(night?)..

#11 foolios   Members   -  Reputation: 133

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:32 AM

I want to catch up to week 3, I really do. I think what's slowing me down the most is reading and trying to learn from the posts in the forum as well as the book. It has doubled, maybe tripled my reading; the questions I have, and the contemplation of what I am trying to learn from it all, plus from others. Maybe the workshop is actually moving too quickly for everyone that would otherwise be involved? Maybe a lot of people see week 3 being posted and are being put off thinking the workshop has left them behind. I didn't come to the workshop myself until week two but I am so desperate to learn a language once and for all that I am sticking to it. I know I won't catch up but I promised myself c# or bust!
Honestly if I stopped as much to comprehend every little bit in the book as I would like, I wouldn't even be as far as page 53 right now(well I did have to start over with the book cause I had started with the spec). I have to force myself to skip past some things, a paragraph here and there, that I can't understand enough to formulate a question about. I don't want to drown the forum. It's so much info as it is, it's crazy imo. Unless of course you're not a beginner then ya I'd say those peeps want the project by now...

One thing for sure though, you are definitely not wasting your time. I see this workshop as being a very valuable tool even after it is over. It can be used by future beginners(if it can be saved somewhere). And it can also be used for a tutorial or a book by JWalsh, well maybe even more so with future thread viewers and their added postings. Maybe after a while a trend may be seen and the tutorial/book will be catered to that and become even better.

Whatever the case, the workshop has more value and will have more value.

Whatever happens, I just gotta say thanks so much for the efforts thus far, and kudos to all the good people I met here!

#12 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4688

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:34 AM

there is no catch-up here friend. just particpate (ie. asking as many questions that you can think of) and you'll be fine.

#13 choffstein   Members   -  Reputation: 1090

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 09:19 AM

Many of us who signed up quite simply don't have questions yet. C#, in the basics, isn't very different from C++, Java, or any other OOP language. I know it will branch (and probably drastically) at some point -- but for the time being, I would just assume many of us don't have questions.

We still appreciate the discussions going on though :)

#14 greencrayon   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 10:36 AM

I guess at the moment the majority of the questions set by JWalsh are answered in the text book. We have not really been pushed to come up with anything ourselves yet. It is hard to know what we don’t know until we try to do something we can’t do.

I think some exercises requiring the students to come up with code examples of their own will have you tutors overwhelmed with questions in no time. As a beginner it is hard for me to think up my own exercises as I don’t really know what I should be working on at this stage in my learning.


#15 Telastyn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3726

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 11:26 AM

Quote:
Original post by visage
C#, in the basics, isn't very different from C++, Java, or any other OOP language. I know it will branch (and probably drastically) at some point


Eh... not so much.


[edit: That is, C# will not branch drastically from OOP languages, java especially. C# 3.0 does from what I understand, but as of 2.0 it's not very different]

[Edited by - Telastyn on July 25, 2007 5:26:56 PM]

#16 Sshado   Members   -  Reputation: 231

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 11:38 AM

I myself need to see some code to work with before I will have any questions. I have read the 10 chapters and stopped at chapter 6 of the spec. I am also reading "Learning C# 2005" by Jesse Liberty. I will be doing some of the projects from that book and if I have questions, I will post them here.

I really appreciate this workshop and the effort you are putting into it.

#17 choffstein   Members   -  Reputation: 1090

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 11:44 AM

Quote:
Original post by Telastyn
Quote:
Original post by visage
C#, in the basics, isn't very different from C++, Java, or any other OOP language. I know it will branch (and probably drastically) at some point


Eh... not so much.


"Eh not so much" that it is similar, or "Eh not so much" that it will branch?

#18 Chad Smith   Members   -  Reputation: 1116

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 06:22 PM

I think he means "Ehh...not so much" that it will not branch as much as you think. I am friends with someone who is pretty good at C++ and C# and tells me that if you can do C++ then picking up C# will be a breeze. Hopefully he is right. But then that means I might not have any questions! lol.

Chad



#19 Melinye   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 09:44 PM

Having attempted to learn C++, Java, C#, scripting languages like Torque-script, Gamemaker script, and even Python (which I would have stuck with if not for this workshop and XNA), the lessons so far have been fairly clear, so no questions from me. I have real problems with Interfaces, Delegates, and actually putting things into practice. But we're not there yet, and hopefully it will stick this time.

On the other hand, this is not language specific, but the actual...design of a program is difficult for me. I can follow along with a fairly simple program, understand the way things are structured, but when I come up with an idea for a game or program, I get overwhelmed with where to start and where to go from there. I really need some practice and some confidence in this area. I know classes tend to be nouns, methods tend to be verbs, but choosing what to make a class, what to make properties, fields, etc stumps me. So what I'm really looking forward to is actual exercises - the more, the better. I think that doing them myself and then seeing how other people do them will help a lot.

For example, Chad posted a nice guess the number game and I've been working on my own, but where his is pretty straight-forward, mine is less so. Its unfinished (there's a counting problem that I have to fix)


using System;

namespace GuessTheNumber
{
class GuessTheNumber
{
static int picked;
static int guess;
static int guesses;

static void Main()
{
GetUserInfo();
DisplayInstructions();
PickNumber();
PlayTheGame();
int guesses = 0;
while (guesses < 3)
{
PlayTheGame();
}

{
Console.WriteLine("My number was {0}", picked);
string answer;
Console.Write("Play again? (Y/N)");


answer = (Console.ReadLine());
if ((answer == "y") || (answer == "Y"))
{
PlayTheGame();
}
}

}



static void GetUserInfo()
{
string name;
Console.Write("What is your name? ");
name = Console.ReadLine();
Console.WriteLine();
Console.WriteLine("Hello {0}", name);
}

static void DisplayInstructions()
{
Console.WriteLine();
Console.WriteLine("I'll think of a number and you'll try to guess it.");
Console.WriteLine("You'll have 3 guesses and I'll give you hints.");
}

static void PickNumber()
{
Random randomNumber = new Random();

picked = randomNumber.Next(1, 10);
}

static void PlayTheGame()
{
Console.WriteLine("Your guess?");
guess = Int32.Parse(Console.ReadLine());
guesses++;
if (guess > picked)
{
Console.WriteLine("No, try something lower.");
}
else if (guess < picked)
{
Console.WriteLine("No, try something higher.");
}
else
{
Console.WriteLine("You got it! It took {0} guesses.", guesses);
}
}
}
}




I realise going with methods is overkill, but I needed the practice. Both ways work and I guess that's what really counts? I get the how-to on everything so far, but the why and when are what I'm hoping to get out of this workshop.

Sorry to be so long winded, but it sounded like you were looking for feedback and this is mine. I'm here, I'm reading, I'm writing out answers to the questions, I'm reading the posts and I'm staying :)




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