Quote:Original post by graveyard filla
and hardly ever do I see the answer being 'stop using C++!'...

Really? I see these kinds of posts quite often.

I think initially people use the language they are most comfortable with which tends to be c++ as this is one of the most widely used in programming, and develope from there.

I have been learning c++ for a year and would like to make some small games what advise would you give to me?

Quote:your main goal in life is to become a professional game developer or otherwise professional C++ programmer

That was my dream and reason to start programming. C++ is easy to learn and hard to master. And if it takes 5 years of practice to reach moderate level, start early. And after that time you realize that C++ is the greatest language out there. Ok not for all problems. If i need a VM, then i take Java (script -> lua, planning -> prolog, ...).

Do you only know what you've just started here? ;) Let me get some popcorn.

I think many people believe so-called high level development environments are slower(overhead) and do not provide direct access that C++ provides. How would you respond to those people?

Quote:Original post by graveyard filla
There's only one reason I can say to someone to use C++ for a game... that would be that your main goal in life is to become a professional game developer or otherwise professional C++ programmer. If that's not the case, stop wasting your time and start using the right tools for the job!!!!! It's 2008 guys!!!

Sorry bud, but you just invalidated your entire post right there [headshake] You were really on a roll too [wink] Let me explain.

How many people start indy/amateur dev for the sole sake to make money? Not many. Now that question is ambiguous so let me further clarify. If you know you have to make $400 by the end of the month to pay bills, would you undertake game programming to fulfill that task? Absolutely not. (Assuming you have never done it before and are not employed, etc..) You would find some decent paying job to get by on so you can pay your bills and make a little over to have for your hobbies. That is not to say people don't make games with the intent to sell them, but the people who are just starting obviously have some time on their hands to learn and explore the field.

Now, that is important to consider because, if you look at why people even get into game programming, it would naturally be (in my eyes): 1) to pursue a career in it (and thus become a professional) 2) write their own version of <insert game title here> 3) and in a few rare cases, they have a mindset that all the cool people do it.

All 3 points above point to a recurring theme of "if I want to make what I see, I have to do and learn what the professionals do". It is just common sense in a way, if you see your favorite sports star practice running backwards on a track for 2 hours a day and you want to be like them, well you would run backwards on a track for 2 hours a day. To anyone who would dismiss that though, one word for you, endorsements, just consider that.

Now, right now, it is almost the de facto standard to use some C/C++ in your game project in the industry. You look at all the game engines around, they are mostly made in C/C++. That is the current trend right now. So, when you tell someone new that they shouldn't use C/C++, it's <adjective A>, <adjective B>, <adjective C>, it would appear to them that you are telling them that they don't have the capability to be able to do what they want, which as we all know in human nature, just drives us more so to do it (attraction/repulsion).

Top that off with all of the horrible misinformation on the web about everything, you have a horrible environment for beginners that don't know better. I'm talking about things like, "Visual Basic is an easy language, but too slow", "Java is too slow and no one really uses it", "C++ is the most powerful language", ad infinitum. The problem is that of context, something that is hardly paid attention to when people make such blanket statements. This is better known as: "know the power of the tools available before you use it for a job". Sure you can construct a giant DeathStar in space that can send a laser down to kill a single ant, but why do that when you can just step on it? Such logic is not what is written about, only how to construct the DeathStar or How to put a shoe on your foot.

Overall, I think there's not enough influential or even accurate resources available for people to make the best decisions for their selves, in which even that in itself is a circular dependency since they are incapable of knowing what is the best for their self. However, by not using C/C++, you will not be able to learn practical game programming concepts any faster than if you used C# or any other language.

The reason is, there is no game programming specific language. You still have to learn the language. How "easy" it is it highly subjective - OOP languages force one specific perspective on development, and that perspective is not the only perspective in that. It's actually quite dangerous for people to be forced into one specific perspective such as that. So, the problem you are alluding to is that of learning the tool you choose to develop in, not how practical a language is for game development. That distinction is important to make because it goes back to what I said earlier about a lack of resources being available to make the better choice for the person to get started.

And to think, all this discussion is just on the actual language used for a game. A game is more than a program, much much more, and until we start enforcing the idea that you just don't "program a game", we will be in this cycle for a long time. That might be the most important aspects to this topic, since all I am seeing is "How to program a game using this specific API" and not "How to engineer a game". But that's a another post for a rainy day, to which I've already brought up.

Just my $700 billion worth of cents [rolleyes]

Quote:Original post by knivil
And after that time you realize that C++ is the greatest language out there.

May I ask what other programming languages besides C++ you are accustomed with?