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[ TBS ] Naughty Virus


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#121 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 01:13 PM

Nothing bad. I just simplified them. Right now they seem to be working pretty well. I can't write them up in detail right now because I'm playing the game (Turns out it's pretty addictive), but I will tonight.

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#122 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 01:56 PM

The only thing I'd recommend is that you be more careful to draw the paths so that they are easier to connect visually, thicker and perhaps with big dots or something at the terminal sides. I'm sure it's easier to take in when you were in on the game at the beginning, though.

Star command: Place left tile to J5, rotated 1xCCW. Move to G4.

I need to play this with a real set.

#123 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:26 PM

1UP's command:

Spawn at B2 and move that to C2.

Day 18 Bunny
[ NV041 (Image) ]
Bunny's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]

[Edited by - Wai on June 1, 2009 1:26:57 PM]

#124 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 03:37 PM

These are the modified rules I've been playing with. They work pretty well for the physical game. Many of the elements that are easy in this version would be difficult or impossible to keep track of in a table top version.

First the tiles. Any set of tiles will do. Mine happens to be a set of all unique tiles minus the two six-terminal tiles that don't change when rotated. I also made three start tiles. That's a total of 40 tiles, and they can support 3 players. If I made another start tile, it could do 4 players, but I don't have 4 players to test with so I probably won't bother.

Players only get one token. This is the most sweeping simplification. There's no spawning, and a simple, single win case.

Players get a hand of two tiles, and draw another whenever they play one. I discovered that being able to see your opponents available tiles is an important part of the game.

For the purpose of this, a 'path' is an unbroken connection spanning 1 or more tiles. A controlled path is a path occupied by a player's token.

The rules for winning are the same; if at any time you make a change that connects your token to your opponents token, your opponent loses. (Naturally, if there are 3 players, you have to destroy both.)

Each turn, you must either place a new tile from your hand, or rotate a tile which your controlled path crosses. New tiles must connect to your controlled path.

Second, you must move your token one tile along your controlled path. You cannot move your token back the way it came unless there is no other legal move.

Play alternates until someone wins.

I haven't yet played a game where I ran out of tiles, when I do I will have to devise some rule to cover it.

A deeper game has slowly emerged as I've played a few times and seen how the pieces interact. I can't explain it right now. I'll have to play another game right now to remind myself.

#125 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 03:56 PM

Re: "Straight Hack" - The no token version

There is another game mode that I didn't mention, which is to play with no token at all, so that when one terminal connects to another, the other terminal loses. I didn't mention it because the game is considerably more mind-boggling when there could be multi-turn attacks. However, so far in all Deathmatches that I played in real life against someone else only ended in Straight Hack stage--it ended before anyone needed to move or spawned a virus, such that when the kill is made, it is a terminal-to-terminal attack.

Another simplification you could have is to let the player randomly pick a tile only when he decides to place a tile. This simplifies the game also because you don't need to go like, "Hey can I borrow your piece? I want to imagine what it is like when I do rotate it." Once the player got the tile, he must place it somewhere. Actually this is the way I have been playing in real life. Because I thought that if I give people too many options to consider, they will feel too overwhelmed.

On the other hand, I think that you would need way too many tiles to play against yourself in Straight Hack or single virus mode, because part of that requires that your opponent does not foresee how you will attack, but when you are attack yourself that is kind of given away.

So, so far, for a physical game, I think Straight Hack with draw-when-place is the simpliest rule set. Then, depending on how comfortable the players are, the rules can get more advanced, adding:

o Tile(s) in hand
o 1 Virus
o Spawning

I think your description is really well written and concise.


What to do when tiles run out

My current plan is to let the players make a new batch of tiles and use those. In the computer version, a new batch of tiles will be available when the old batch is used.

#126 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 04:26 PM

For some reason I keep imagining this game having a cloth "board". Then you could just wad the whole game up in a ball to put it away. How's that for casual? [cool] If someone was really clever, they could make the "board" into a carrying case for the tiles. Just random thoughts.

The only thing I don't like about the way the game works is that it all seems to depend on manipulating the flow of the game so that two networks are connected on my turn instead of my opponents turn. Is this something that is mitigated in real play?

Edit: One more random thought. What if in boardless deathmatch mode, one could draw a new terminal? These would have to be very rare, and the game would probably have to be very large for it to not totally screw up the balance. As I said, just a random thought...

#127 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 04:50 PM

Terminals don't really have a purpose in variations without multiple tokens.

Quote:
The only thing I don't like about the way the game works is that it all seems to depend on manipulating the flow of the game so that two networks are connected on my turn instead of my opponents turn. Is this something that is mitigated in real play?


No, it actually becomes the whole purpose. However, going first doesn't seem to give an advantage. That's possibly because the randomness of drawing tiles mitigates that problem. We need two highly skilled test subjects to make sure the game actually can be decided by out thinking your opponent rather than just waiting for them to make a mistake.

#128 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:06 PM

Re: Cloth board

I never thought of that. Since it is summer, it can be a beach towel with hexes. I think a Naughty Virus beach towel would be pretty cute, at least in the way I imagine it. I am imagining it to be orange with white hex grid, with big cute stars and bunnies.


Re: Who connects first

The real play doesn't mitigate this. I think it is just how the game works, like checker. You don't need to be the first to connect to your enemy to win. You could also win by being the last to connect to the enemy.


Re: Mistake-less games

When I play myself, there are situations where I realized a set of moves to finish off the other side, but could not think of a counter when I switch. You could still call it a mistake that the other player didn't see enough steps in the future. But I think that is good enough.

For example, say I spawn an 1UP in this round for seemingly no reason, but if 8 turns later, the network had segmented into a high pressure network of dominos, and Bunny loses because it is short by 1 virus, which makes Bunny impossible to neutralize 1UP's attack, you can't really say that Bunny lost due to a mistake. On the other hand, you can't really say 1UP predicted the exact outcome. Perhaps 1UP is just preparing for the worst, but without knowing how the situation may arise.


Re: Terminal tiles that you can draw

I haven't tried it because letting the player place terminal tiles on the network during the game could potentially break the game. That is just my intuition. However, I have this idea to argument to it that might make it work:

Implementation 1: sets of connection tiles come in batch, as how it has been described. When the entire batch has been drawn, the next player to draw a tile and have no connection tile left to be drawn gets to draw a terminal tile. Since terminal tiles are very powerful, you don't want your enemy to draw them. Therefore, if the batch is almost all used up, you should use the tiles in your hand, so that your enemy does not get that advantage. If there is no tile left to be drawn but no one is holding up a tile, then a new batch of tiles is open, and no one gets a new terminal tile.

Implementation 2: The terminal tiles are mixed with the rest of the tiles, and there might be no difference between batches (I mean, if it is a physical set, it might be a pain to sort through the batches after a game, so they will be all mixed up). When a player draws a terminal tile, the player must place the tile with only its back side touching an existing tile. In this rule, a new terminal that is placed will never be connected to any network as it is placed, and there could be a chance that the enemy would connect to it before the player who placed it gets control of it.

#129 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 02:05 AM

Because someone might find this useful, this is the definition of all 39 unique tiles.

Format is simple. Each line represents a tile, each sequence in {} is a path.
It doesn't matter which edge you start numbering on, or if you go clockwise or counter-clockwise.


{0,1}
{0,2}
{0,3}
{0,1,2}
{0,1,3}
{0,1,4}
{0,1,2,3}
{0,1,2,4}
{0,1,3,4}
{0,1}{2,3}
{0,3}{1,2}
{0,2}{1,3}
{0,1}{2,4}
{0,4}{1,2}
{0,2}{1,4}
{0,1}{3,4}
{0,4}{1,3}
{0,3}{1,4}
{0,1,2,3,4}
{0,1,2}{3,4}
{0,1,2}{4,5}
{0,1,3}{4,5}
{0,1,3}{2,5}
{0,1,3}{2,4}
{0,1,4}{3,5}
{0,1,4}{2,3}
{0,1,4}{2,5}
{0,1,2}{3,4,5}
{0,1,4}{2,3,5}
{0,1,3}{2,4,5}
{0,1}{2,3}{4,5}
{0,3}{1,2}{4,5}
{0,1,2,3}{4,5}
{0,1,2,4}{3,5}
{0,1,3,4}{2,5}
{0,2}{1,3}{4,5}
{0,2}{1,4}{3,5}
{0,1,2,3,4,5}
{0,3}{1,4}{2,5}




The last two don't change when rotated; that's why I omitted them from my set.

#130 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 05:13 PM

Bunny Command:
Spawn at K2. Move from H2 to J2.

Really though, someone else needs to play Bunny.

#131 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 05:53 PM

In the story:
Today's News: People don't like Bunnies!

** Bunny is sad! **

Things are going so bad for Bunny and people don't like it.
What should Bunny do?

** Bunny goes /cry **

The terminal at the Nuclear Power Plant heard Bunny crying
and said, "People don't like me either, that makes two of us!"

Bunny says, "Let's make people like us!"

** Power Plant /hugs Bunny **

A Bunny Pops!

And it is Green!


Day 18 Star
[ NV042 (Image) ]
Star's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]

[Edited by - Wai on June 2, 2009 12:53:41 PM]

#132 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 05:37 AM

Star command:
Place right tile to I4 rotated 1xCW. Stay.

#133 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 07:06 AM

Day 18 1UP

[ NV043 (Image) ]

1UP's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]

[Edited by - Wai on June 2, 2009 4:06:28 PM]

#134 TOdorus   Members   -  Reputation: 145

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:25 PM

Ok, why didn't star play F1 in that last move?

Isn't it a very good strategy in this game, to help your other two opponents destroy each other? This would keep the risk away from you and keep the opponents more occupied by the immediate threats to mount an offensive on you.

#135 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 05:06 AM

Quote:
Original post by TOdorus
Ok, why didn't star play F1 in that last move?

Isn't it a very good strategy in this game, to help your other two opponents destroy each other? This would keep the risk away from you and keep the opponents more occupied by the immediate threats to mount an offensive on you.


You mean, why didn't star place a tile to F1? E2 and F2 are already connected, so there would be little point. Anyway, every move is precious, and Star has more important things to do. With the move Star made, it has two independent networks that can be disconnected and connected at will. It's next task is probably fending off 1UP at the satellite.

Do you suppose there could be a victory condition that involves control of the largest network or the largest number of hosts rather than elimination of enemies?

#136 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 06:50 AM

Re: Why not help the opponents destroy each other?

I think in general, having territory is important because it allows you to have more sections to withstand more attacks. So while Star could do something to let 1UP and Bunny to kill off their populations, both 1UP and Bunny will not duke it out unless they know that they have enough virus after the battle to finish off Star.

In the current network, I think if 1UP has a path to kill Bunny, 1UP would do it because 1UP has enough to kill Bunny and then Star. And, Bunny cannot attack as is because Bunny is weaker than 1UP. 1UP could help Bunny kill Star, if there is a way to finish both afterwards. But if that is the case, you see that Bunny will not take the bait because if Bunny kills Star, 1UP will just use Star's network to kill Bunny. So for Bunny, it is better to just sit and watch 1UP kill Star, and hope that an opportunity comes for Bunny to kill 1UP 1 on 1 afterwards.

Similar, Bunny could help Star kill 1UP, but Star will have casualties. So the question becomes whether Star would take the bait to attack 1UP and weaken itself to let Bunny attack itself afterwards.

1UP's command:

Place left tile to D4, CWx3.
Move from F3 to D3.

Day 19 Bunny

Bunny's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]


Re: Win by Host Count

Yes, there could be such a rule. But I would have designed the board differently so that the virus must fight to get a host, such as having all of the host in the middle, so that when the virus tries to connect to them, the tiles necessarily butt head. Suppose the center has a ring of 6 terminals, we could make it such that a virus wins if it controls 4.

[Edited by - Wai on June 2, 2009 1:50:45 PM]

#137 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:17 AM

I've just played a 6 player deathmatch version. It was awesome.

#138 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:33 AM

Bunny command:
Rotate H2 1xCW.
Move J2 to H2.

#139 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 861

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 10:48 AM

Re: Deyja
How many tiles did you need and how long did the game last?
Was it easy to explain the rules? I suppose once they finished
a game they don't want to play it again immediately, is that right?

Day 19 Star

Star's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]


#140 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 11:01 AM

Quote:
Re: Deyja
How many tiles did you need and how long did the game last?
Was it easy to explain the rules? I suppose once they finished
a game they don't want to play it again immediately, is that right?
Two of them did. I currently have 56 tiles. 1 of every variation (Including the two I missed the first time around...), 6 'terminals', and duplicates of some of the simpler tiles.

I was playing with the simple ruleset I posted earlier. Simplicity really helps with accessibility for new players. Three of the players killed themselves fairly early, as they entered a MAD situation, and I was able to clean up the one who survived. After that it became more tactical, as the players started learning how the pieces interact.




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