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[ TBS ] Naughty Virus


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#141 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 11:13 AM

Re: Real life experience

I only had two sessions of real-life play.

The first session was a 1v1, the other person wanted to play again immediately.

The second session was a 1v1v1, but the third person wanted to watch first so we played a 1v1 before playing 1v1v1. After the game, no one wanted to play but the new person wanted to get someone else to play it when we would meet.

My conclusion is that the game is obviously not for every one. But it is at least simple enough that most people would try it once when they see it.

I think that there is almost no way for a new player to kill a player who had played it before. So perhaps the next time, when we introduce the game to new players, we actually let the new players play each other first, because people that encounters the game first would have problem reading the paths.

How long did your game last? Mine trials lasted less than 5 minutes using perhaps 12 tiles only.

Comment:

When there are more than 3 players, it is really easier for people to gang up on a player and just kill them outright. In that case you discover who your group hates.


Sponsor:

#142 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 01:55 PM

Star command:
Rotate H4 2xCW.
Move to G4 to H5, just for good measure.

One thing I've noticed is that moving feels very cheap, almost free, because it's not that necessary most of the time. The only exception to this is when I've wanted to move before rotating.

#143 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 02:16 PM

1UP's command:
Place Left tile to E4, CWx1. Stay.

Day 20 Bunny
[ NV946 (Image) ]
Bunny's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]


Re: Movement
The concept was that it gives some hints to the opponents as to what the virus is trying to do.

[Edited by - Wai on June 4, 2009 4:16:14 AM]

#144 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 02:35 PM

Bunny Command:
Rotate I1 1xCCW. Stay.

#145 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 05:45 PM

Just played 1v1 and 1v1v1 with my family, boardless deathmatch. They liked it once they got the hang of the rules. All our kills tonight resulted from the victim making oversights, rather than being genuinely out-thought.

Even in a technically "boardless" deathmatch, without any landmarks, there is still a place for a board as an alignment aid.

Speaking of landmarks, I think the reason for the increased emphasis on landmarks is this: In a boardless deathmatch, there's nothing for it but to go for the kill. But in a boarded game, the landmarks/extra hosts allow one to establish a position before going and killing the other guy. It's a security thing. Of course, there's also the human desire to possess, which I'm certain played a role in it. They give a certain direction to the game.

To make my set, I just downloaded some large hex graph paper and drew the tiles on it. It works as an experimental set, but the paper curls and it's kind of annoying. Everyone has their own idea of what to make the next set out of (felt, foamboard, or wood). I guess that means they're getting into it. I'll have a picture of my current set tomorrow.


#146 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 02 June 2009 - 07:22 PM

Day 20 Star
[ NV047 (Image) ]
Star's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]

[Edited by - Wai on June 5, 2009 4:22:32 AM]

#147 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 05:26 AM

Can we move more than one virus at the end of our turn?

#148 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 09:20 AM

Here's the set we played with last night. Star has just connected with the green spiral and killed it.




#149 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 01:22 PM

I heartily recommend foamboard. You won't get as perfect edges unless you're real good with the razor blade, but the pieces are much sturdier. Where did you get such big hex graph paper? I had to use trigraph paper and mark out hexes on it.

Also, I like the way you set up your starting positions there.

I'm currently writing a version of this in XNA. I'm implementing tile placement and rotation right now, and then I am going to implement tokens/viruses and path ownership.

I want to create a simple way to add other rulesets to the game, using the same pieces - after that, I'll probably start shopping for help. So if anyone wants to contribute to this project, stop by #virex on Afternet.

#150 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 01:29 PM

Re: Movement

You can only move one virus at a time.

Nice Virus!


#151 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 06:14 PM

I think I'll make my next set out of foamboard. It will at least make a good intermediate set, in case we decide to go with something even more substantial. It would be really cool if you could come up with something magnetized; it might make a good car game. It would be expensive though, especially if you were only making one for yourself. Mass production would be different.

I got my graph paper here. Everything is parameterized, and it sends you a custom PDF. FYI, the size measurement refers to the side of the hex; for this set, I set it to .5 inches. This higher level page has a bunch of other cool paper types, including musical staff paper and storyboard paper. Cool site.

@Wai: Yeah, the viruses were nice, but I wouldn't have wanted to try moving them and keeping them on the right path [smile]. I was originally going to use small wads of different colored paper, but those got tossed out.

Star command:
Rotate F5 1xCCW.
Move from G4 to H5.

It tends to be easier to defend in this game than to attack, at least for me.

#152 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 10:05 PM

1UP's command:

Rotate C2 3xCW, Stay

Day 21 Bunny
[ NV048 (Image) ]
Bunny's options:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]


Re: Defense
I think defense is easier but still pretty hard.
If 1UP moved wrong Bunny could kill 1UP!

** Bunny almost took out 1UP! **
** /panic **

[Edited by - Wai on June 6, 2009 2:05:00 PM]

#153 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 03:31 PM

Something has come up that needs to be determined.

What happens when, in a 3 or more player game, player A rotates a piece such that it connects B and C to each other (but not A)?

#154 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 03:36 PM

Re:

Then B gets to kill C. Assuming that the order of the turns is A, B, C.

#155 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 05:36 PM

Bunny Command:
Spawn at K2. Move new bunny to I1.

I've been thinking about what you said earlier about making spawning expensive because you don't want the board to become, as you said, "a sea of disconnected tiles". Really, though, that situation is not stable and is bound to collapse and coalesce into larger networks. Someone will get up the courage to set off the dominoes, which would actually make for a very fun, high-stakes game. There may be other reasons to make it hard, like the strategy hints, but I think it needs more consideration. I guess it gets added to the list of all the other variable rules.

#156 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 10:34 PM

Re: Cheaper Spawn

If we were to test a rule where spawning is cheaper, what rule do you want to test?


In the story:
** It's a girl! **
** Go Go Bunny Power! **


Day 21 Star
[ NV049 (Image) ]
Star's option:
1) Pick one: [ Spawn | Place | Rotate | Wait ]
2) Pick one: [ Move | Stay ]
3) Pick one: [ Expose | Keep ]



Comments: Contested network space:

[ typo land editted out ]

[Edited by - Wai on June 7, 2009 6:34:11 PM]

#157 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 02:02 PM

Re Cheaper Spawn: I just wouldn't make spawning mutually exclusive with network operations. If you come back to the computer virus analogy, how hard is it for a computer virus to copy itself? Thought maybe making spawning absolutely free isn't the right think either. I'll try it out sometime in RL.

Re Bunny vs 1UP: I don't see what you mean by attacking D1 and A1. They are empty, which means they can neither be controlled or "attacked". I think the problem is that I don't know what you mean by the word "attack" as it regards tiles or spaces. And how would Star's spawning help 1UP defend D1? There's not a lot of time to make defensive preparations; Bunny is ready to attack now.

Here's how I see it: Star has one more turn, then 1UP has one more turn, then Armageddon, unless Bunny has been scared off. It seems to me that Star's best option is to let Bunny and 1UP fight it out while spawning enough virus to finish off the survivor in another big domino fight. However, Bunny stands to own four hosts if it kills off 1UP, giving it a nice segmented network, so that would still be a tough fight, even if Star has a couple extra viruses to sacrifice. Someone really needs to give Star something else to think about. If Star has nothing better to do for 4 turns than strengthen its position, things are going to be ugly when it finally gets moving (or freaking awesome, depending on how you look at it and from whose perspective).

One possibility for 1UP is to rotate D2 to completely cut off the satellite from the rest of the battleground. It just might delay the inevitable long enough to put up some kind of decent last-stand defense at the satellites. Sticking a tile to Bunny's network is also a good idea. Actually, I know just the thing for 1UP: spawn and move to E2. That would throw everything back into a nice stalemate. 1UP could then rotate E2 3x, and effectively transfer itself into the lower network, without affecting anything else.

Considering that Star is best off building up to take out the survivor of the Bunny vs 1UP battle, the question becomes whether Bunny is wise to continue on its attack course, which depends on whether it can come out of the battle with a reasonably strong position. There doesn't really seem to be any other choice, other than to let all the sides catch their breath, which will just make it even harder to finish the game when everyone is that much more entrenched.

Regarding Bunny's position, should it take on and defeat 1UP: Bunny will have some warning if Star wants to attack through H3, and if it plays smart, it should even be able to withstand a defeat there, by simply isolating itself in 1UP's current network. Perhaps it could re-open the route through E4 that 1UP was working on, and attack Star that way.

Regardless, Star should probably spawn and move into trigger position at one of the major gate locations into its domain, as a first line of defense or attack. Perhaps D7, or around H4 of F5.

#158 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 02:08 PM

Re: A1, D1,

I don't know what happened, but by A1 and D1 I meant D2 in both cases.

The hopefully typo-free version:

Comments: Contested network space:

Bunny can now attack D2 four times, but 1UP can only counter three times. If Bunny controls D2, Bunny can subsequently attack every virus 1UP has.

One way to counter this is for 1UP to spawn to increase the number of times that 1UP could defend D2 to four times. This is possible if 1UP has enough territory to place new virus in a way that increase the number of times it could attack D2.

Another way is to rotate a tile such that 1UP defend D2 four times. This might be possible because 1UP does have four virus, but it depends on whether the network as a tile that can be rotated to do that job.

A third way is to reduce the number of times Bunny could attack D2 by placing a tile at Bunny's network. (That is, if this option is possible.)

A fourth way is to invite Star for the party. If Bunny sees that Star could be the last guest of the network, then Bunny will not attack (as in, Bunny could attack D2 and 1UP would have to defend, but even if Bunny kills 1UP, Star will get to finish Bunny, so Bunny will have no reason to kill 1UP as that would just give Star a free win.)

#159 theOcelot   Members   -  Reputation: 498

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 05:07 PM

By "attack", do you mean "take control of"?

#160 Wai   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 05:15 PM

Re: "Attack"

In this case I literally means attack, because if Bunny connects to D2, 1UP at D6 is dead. After that, if 1UP connects to D2, the Bunny virus that killed 1UP at D6 will die. So I was talking about how if Bunny attack first, and 1UP retaliates, Bunny could attack the second time. The cycle may not stop until Bunny attacks the fourth time, at that time, all of 1UP will be dead, and Bunny will have only 1 virus left.

Yes, I meant take control of also.




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