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EI?


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#1 Gary   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 27 December 1999 - 12:48 AM

I read a paper a while ago about Emotional Intelligence. I was wondering if anyone had ever considered using it.

I think its greatest use would be in role playing games to create more realistic charecters.

In case you havent heard of it I'll describe it.
Each charecter is assigned an overall personality mood, that is the standard. Than, each event that occures causes a spike in the mood that slowly drifts back to its normal state. The greater the spike the longer it takes for the mood to return to normal. The spikes than move either up, for good mood, and down for bad mood.

It would be interesting to see in roleplaying games because of the depth it would add to the people. You kill an childs mother in the game and rather than just calling the guards or whatever the child actualy gets angry.

For even greater depth, in a 3D polygon design, you could add body language. So, you see a guy walking down the road and you can tell he had a bad day even before you address his charecter.

The only real difficulty I see with this is how much proccessor power it will take.

What do you all think? I'm interested in some feedback because I'm considering using it.

Gary



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#2 mason   Members   -  Reputation: 128

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Posted 17 December 1999 - 11:11 AM

This sounds like more hype than substance. It's an interesting concept, but IMO creating realistic emotion in games is a lot more complex than this method would have you believe.

I don't see how it could *hurt* anything, and it might, when used in conjunction with other methods, give your game a microscopic bit of added realism... but I believe for most RPGs you're better off relying on your scripts and events to create emotional state.

If I were you, I'd keep it on the priority list, but near the very bottom.

Just my $0.02 -

Mason McCuskey
Spin Studios
www.spin-studios.com


#3 Stefpet   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 20 December 1999 - 09:43 PM

I believe in the use of different levels of emotional intelligence depending upon the actual game. Emotional intelligence might be used to simply spice up the ai or the peronality of a character/monster/enemey even if it's just a shoot'em up and not a super advance rpg.

For example... a 2D scrolling space shooter. Instead of the main boss has his pregenerated pattern the pattern may be modified depending on if you shoot him in the eye (he's angry) or somewhere else. The player must think of how to destroy the boss, better nuke him as fast as possible instead of teasing him and getting him angry (and harder to hit). This very simple "emotional intelligence" (or rather emotional logic) could just add that little extra to a game.

Another 2 cents... :-)

------------------

// Best regards,
// Stefan


#4 MikeD   Members   -  Reputation: 158

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Posted 21 December 1999 - 12:26 AM

I feel that a relational database for charcters in an RPG would be a good augmentation to an overall emotive character state.
What I mean is that you store information about how different characters relate to each other, whether character A likes or hates or trusts or mis-trusts character B-Z.
Augmenting the relational view of characters as the player interacts with them, so that their actions have long lasting repercussions on future events and interactions (you insult a guy in the local tavern and the next day his brother, the blacksmith, won't shoe your horse).
You could also have characters with pre-dispositions towards other character races/sexes/classes (his family was killed by orcs, he kills orcs on sight).

In the end it's a twist on the mainstay of Zelda style RPG's....the puzzle...instead of solving how to find the flaming sword to open the mystic portal, you'll be solving how to chat up the barmaid in the local tavern so you can stay after hours and steal the barkeeps cash.

Emotions can also spike in different directions. Make a character frightened and they are more likely to run away, build a character's confidence and they'll follow into a suicidal battle. Instead of blind allegiance or oh-so-scripted responses you could have more lifelike and difficult to control characters. This could increase the gameplay aspect or destroy it depending on how it's implemented and the player market you're after.

Overall it could potentially give a lot more depth to a world but will, yet again, be another thing to tweak and tweak and tweak.

Mike


#5 Gary   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 22 December 1999 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the input.

I wasn't planning on replacing AI with EI, just using it to add further charecter depth.

Like you may talk to a guy one day and he's nice and willing to help you, than he has a bad day and changes his mind (all of this indepent of your direct actions, charecters can effect each other). This is where I think it would be very proccessor intensive but rather than living in a completely pre-scripted would, the game expierience could change drastically for each player and enhance the replay expierience.

I like the idea of having different spikes, such as fear-bravery, happy-sad, angry-polite, etc. It would add much more depth.

There's also a lot of tweaking to be done with this system, but I think if done correctly it could really add to games, even RPG's.

I was also thinking that it could be implemented well in a stratigy game.

You send your men into combat, but call for retreat. One of your units, though, lost his good friend and disobays your orders and continues to fight, or goes kamakazi.

Gary


#6 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 22 December 1999 - 02:08 PM

Hey thats a great idea and I would really like to see it implemented. I am so sick of the npc's in games like ff7 that just do the same things over and over again. I think it would be a hit because the game would be completely different every time you played!

Good Luck and Merry Christmas


#7 SiCrane   Moderators   -  Reputation: 9670

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Posted 22 December 1999 - 02:24 PM

Just be careful that you give cues that so-and-so is having a bad day. One of the early version of Oddworld II had given characters emotions in the same way, but it came off to the player as completely random.

#8 Gary   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 23 December 1999 - 09:45 AM

Yeah, the first thing I was thinking for people to identify emotions was body language. People bieng slumped over, or very rigid.

Secondly I was planning on doing just what you said, giving hints to the person. You go uo to talk to the guy, and he's like "Hey guy, outa my way. My dog just died today and I ain't gonna deal with rabble like you!" Things similar to that. The scripting for the explainations may be a little complex, but for the gain it would add, I think it would be worth it.

Gary

Gary


#9 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 27 December 1999 - 12:48 AM

The idea sounds great, but I believe that it won't be too viible to the players.

What about going a little further making some events change the character general behaviour and other ones just it mood?

e.g: The child whose mother was killed won't be angry for a few minutes it would never forget the experience!

I know this suposes a helluva work and that it isn't easy to be integrated in an rpg story, but in my opinion it would add a much greater deal of realism than the variable mood of the characters!


#10 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests   -  Reputation:

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Posted 02 January 2000 - 06:58 PM

Sounds like the EI thing is soething that could be accomplished somewhat easly by using fuzzy logic....dont get me wrong since I am no AI guru....but I have just recently used fuzzy logic in a game I am in the process of developing(damn proud of it also..LOOKS GREAT!, let you know when i have a demo out)

Just my 2 cents....i will let you look into ways to accomplish it since I am on my way to bed

Night and good luck
Eric

#11 Woop   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 04 January 2000 - 05:14 AM

Just a word of advice. Designing in ''emotional'' behaviour has to be done very carefully. (I view it as just another layer to the logic behind a character personally, but call it what you will).

Your audience (the players) are in the game because games are fun and the escapism offered is wonderful. Some games will indeed be benefitted by ''more realistic'' behaviours and responses to the players actions.

However, if in an rpg the player misses out on some key information because a game character is in too bad a mood to explain something, then despite the ''realism'' of the event, the player has lost out.

There are other circumstances in which negative consequences could result from ''emotional behaviour''. Basically, I think a widespread design of emotions into game characters could actually be a disaster from the game play perspective.

Use emotions sparingly and thoughtfully, and they will have a greater (and generally more beneficial) impact on the player.

Woop

#12 Captain Goatse   Banned   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2000 - 04:19 AM

Oh, Jesus that would take time!!! Think about after creating game you''ll have to spend rest of your life while adding sentences and actions which are base on your characters charisma/appearance/day/week/month/season or other "emotional" attributes!! Simplier version would be cool like something which generates quests random like putting words and code together:
"Go","Get", "the","carrot", "is","trouble", "needs", "Sue"
"woods", "and", "lives"

random1(or "feeling")

Go get the carrot from the woods

random2(or "feeling")

Sue needs carrot, she lives in woods

random 3
Sue is in trouble, get carrot for her


In case 1 PC(personal character)he/she goes to the woods and fights agains ogres or nasty dwarfs he find the carrot from the body of dead guy and gets the carrot back to the elder who gaved quest.
PC karma +1
PC finds new crossbow and healing potion
PC gains level

I hope you got the point





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