ok I know I am bringing up nothing new, but I was examining my Diablo 1 box. I was thinking about it from a marketing perspective and thinking about what words they use to describe the game. I then looked at what screenshots they include. They made a point to show a screenshot of several people being hung. When you really examine that, what does that say about the gaming industry...not to mention our society? I'm not just picking on Diablo, but I am so tired of games glorifying violence so much. I think they are even worse than movies because movies often have some greater reason. it is just so immature to want to create games w/ blood and gore for only that reason...maybe the industry will grow up as the game players get older ..... sorry...I know I am mentioning nothing new but I just had to vent....
...A CRPG in development... Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself. Edited by - Nazrix on July 11, 2001 7:58:24 PM

Actually, upon further analysis...

your typical RTS is not about killing it''s about the strategy that leads to the winning (which involves killing)

Diablo was not about killing as much as it was about getting bigger and stronger...same w/ Everquest.

So there must be something else pissing me off...

quote:So there must be something else pissing me off...

I don''t know about you Naz, but the question that bothers me most is "Why?".

Why do you always have to, either physicaly or mentaly, hurt/injure/kill to advance through the world?

There''s a theory, which I consider pretty much true, that all the humour of the world is based on someone''s suffering. I mean, it''s everywhere: jokes, comics, animation, movies, books, games, society. So I could only excuse the violence if it was in humorous manner, like the Roadrunner, or Charlie Chaplin, or else.

Although humour softens the violence. People say: "Look at that piano crushing over him, that was sooo funny, it probably does not hurt much...".

And using the Diablo example. I know that killing is not the goal (getting better is), it''s the way to reach the goal. And I know it''s a hack and slash, so you''re supposed to hack and slash in good measure. And I know that''s what people (and me too)expect from such game. But I also know that it makes Life so much insignificant.

Maybe it would be nice to have alternate way to reach your goals in such games. Or maybe it would suck. Maybe finding way to express, that Life is much much more worthed than the click, which takes it. Even goblins'' life.

Especially goblins'' life.

Just some random thoughts...

Boby Dimitrov
boby@shararagames.com
Sharara Games Team

You guys are posing good reasons, but I think you''re looking at it all wrong. Violence in a game is not there just because it sells, it''s because it''s nothing if a fact of life. The things represented in games differ in no way from the things that happen in real life. When you fight a war, people get killed, when you play as a cop or guy saving the world, bad guys get killed (and good guys too). If we lived in a world where violence was long in our past a peacful society reigned supreme, then I would agree that the games industry was being childish in having to resort to antiquated and obscene methods of selling titles. However this is not the case, as demonstrated by your local news report. So my view? Violence is a part of human nature and until every last preson in the world overcomes it we will see it everywhere *shrugs*. That''s my spin.

==============================
"Need more eeenput..."
- #5, "Short Circuit"
==============================

Gaiiden, I really don't that's the case, but that's just my opinion
I don't think the violence in games is trying to simulate or be some sort of metaphore for daily life.

I don't think that I'm tired of games with violence because it's immature either.

I think I am mostly tired of it 'cause every game emphasizes it. It's the first thing on every feature list (well most feature lists). I would like to see some more creativity, I suppose. Although I think it is getting better. But, like I said, I just had to vent...





...A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on July 11, 2001 12:18:53 AM

Violence against the undead must stop now. Maybe not.

I might care if the game was highlighting the death and destuction of the innocent for no good reason other than to try and impress people.

But if it has a point...fine.

Carmageddon I really enjoyed. I bought all three as a result. I killed a pedestrian here and there just to see them splat but for the most part I just went after the race or the other cars. It was the players option (and their ability to drive) that determined the violence of the game. People got really miffed about that game (hence zombies in some versions) but it wasn''t like you were forced to kill people.

I don''t think a game exists (excluding Puzzle games obviously) that doesn''t have some sort of violence. Those poor poor Goomba''s who lacked the simple AI to run away. They just walked, like lemmings....

Maybe instead of removing violence, it should just be an option. Peaceful solutions should also be available.

Ben
http://therabbithole.redback.inficad.com

quote:Original post by Nazrix
I''m not just picking on Diablo, but I am so tired of games glorifying violence so much. I think they are even worse than movies because movies often have some greater reason.

I hear you. I was trying to explain what I saw to be the possibilities of electronic entertainment to a friend of mine. We were both waiting in line to see a movie, and behind us was the movie arcade, filled with nothing but "rip the head off" fighting games and bloody shooters. Oh, and a racer here and there. Kind of saps any lofty visions, you know?


I know I''ve said this before, but its a two pronged problem. The cash generating machine that is our primary audience typically isn''t very mature. This is not a slam, but if the only audience for movies was the same as the audience for games every movie would be Blair Witch / Pitch Black / Terminator / etc. Fun, but not much upstairs. (Good luck finding approaching the level of an AI, or Men of Honor, or Kundun, etc., etc.)

Folks that I''m struggling not to call marketing weasels (''cause it''s too kind ) see this, and feed off of it. So we get blood and nearly bared cleavage. Nothing interrupts the cash pump, save for an irritable and irritating Congress, and so it keeps going.

I hold out some hope that as gamers grow older, though, that their gaming needs will mature and the market will respond. However, all the 30-40 year old gamers I know are still immature and hormonal when it comes to games, so that hope may be entirely irrational.




--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:Original post by KalvinB
I don''t think a game exists (excluding Puzzle games obviously) that doesn''t have some sort of violence. Those poor poor Goomba''s who lacked the simple AI to run away. They just walked, like lemmings....

I could point to many children''s games, but I''m sure that''s not what you meant.

Adventure games seem to do a better job of this, if better is the right word. Myst, for example, had no violence beyond a darkly implied situation about controlling natives.

Non combat sims, like Microsoft Train Simulator or Flight Simulator also can serve up a violence free experience. I think this may be one reason why The Sims is so popular, as well as SimCity.

Lots of management games are violence free, come to think of it. Abstract strategy games, too. Card games as well.

I remember an old Chris Crawford game called Siboot which I think was solely about interpersonal politics and betrayal as being violence free. M.U.L.E. was non-violent. So was a famous game about hacking whose name escapes me.

Heh, just goes to show how endemic violence has become that we can easily overlook a huge swath of games. Just because it''s widespread doesn''t mean its the only way.



--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

quote:Original post by Nazrix
I think I am mostly tired of it ''cause every game emphasizes it. It''s the first thing on every feature list (well most feature lists). I would like to see some more creativity, I suppose. Although I think it is getting better. But, like I said, I just had to vent...

Doh!! I knew I forgot something! You''re right Naz. In fact I meant to edit my post and add that I agree that some games overglorify the experience, and that''s not right. But using it because it simply fits with the game I think is fine (again reffering back to war games people get killed, action games and saving the world good guys and bad guys die, etc). So yeah I agree that some games make the killing a bit too obvious



==============================
"Need more eeenput..."
- #5, "Short Circuit"
==============================

quote:Original post by Gaiiden


Doh!! I knew I forgot something! You''re right Naz. In fact I meant to edit my post and add that I agree that some games overglorify the experience, and that''s not right. But using it because it simply fits with the game I think is fine (again reffering back to war games people get killed, action games and saving the world good guys and bad guys die, etc). So yeah I agree that some games make the killing a bit too obvious


==============================
"Need more eeenput..."
- #5, "Short Circuit"
==============================

Yes exactly. And I don''t think it''s just because it''s violence. If a lot of games emphasized one thing (no matter what it is) 95% of the time, I would just feel the need to see something different. Although, it seems that games are getting better. Thief was a nice breath of fresh air, and even FPS game seem like they want you to use more intelligence in your game playing.



...A CRPG in development...

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.