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#1 AlphaCoder   Banned   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:23 AM

My team has decided to tackle the challenge of creating a full-fledged AO-rated MMO. The concept will basically be you taking on the role of a male or female, with a great depth to customization of appearance, then just basically touring a medium-sized city looking for chance encounters, or pre-planned encounters, dates, one-night-stands. All of a very pornographic nature. Some name ideas so far: World of Whorecraft Skeet-skeet-online and various others. Any ideas, constructive or otherwise, criticisms, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Also we're looking for a couple 3d modelers. Note: I'm not posting this as a help-wanted ad (unless you consider an open discussion of the design as help.) Really just looking for ideas here. We've also played around with the idea of selling the software with an option for special USB devices that the player can attach to their genitals in order to more fully experience the sensations they are causing and being caused by their partner in a sexual encounter. Obviously there would be a wide array of such devices for both men and women. We would also like this to be adults-only (as it is intended to be as graphic as humanly possible detailing every possible act in the highest possible detail from every possible angle) this includes all rapes, fetishes, and straight sex (or gay, bi, etc.) However we'd like to design our system such that it wouldn't be too hard for minors to "find a way" into the system as well. For subscription purposes of course. If we restrict it to adults, we're limiting our customer base too much. Basically something like terms of agreement or license or some nonsense that states the age restrictions. Since no one reads those anyways, we wouldn't be responsible for 9 year olds getting involved.

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#2 Lukas Boersma   Members   -  Reputation: 116

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:31 AM

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Since no one reads those anyways, we wouldn't be responsible for 9 year olds getting involved.


Yes you would. Besides from being absolutely unethical to give 9 year olds access to this stuff, at least here in germany - from what I know - it's illegal to publish such content without proper age verification. And I'm sure that similar laws exist in many other countries.

#3 AlphaCoder   Banned   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:33 AM

Quote:
Original post by uggibuggi
Quote:
Since no one reads those anyways, we wouldn't be responsible for 9 year olds getting involved.


Yes you would. Besides from being absolutely unethical to give 9 year olds access to this stuff, at least here in germany - from what I know - it's illegal to publish such content without proper age verification. And I'm sure that similar laws exist in many other countries.


The way we see it. This is a powerful tool for teaching children about sex without the risk of their bodies being violated.

Also, we're willing to host this game in whatever country is necessary to avoid such laws.

#4 Jatora   Banned   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:33 AM

and this age verification, thats taken from the credit card i assume, you know, the thing that the 9 year olds have. idiot shut your stupid mouth. Anyways, i think this is a great idea. I am a single parent and I have two kids, one boy and one girl, and I find it hard to bring up sex with them. This would be a great way to introduce them slowly without having to rape them myself.

#5 Oluseyi   Staff Emeritus   -  Reputation: 1678

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:36 AM

Quote:
Original post by AlphaCoder
However we'd like to design our system such that it wouldn't be too hard for minors to "find a way" into the system as well. For subscription purposes of course. If we restrict it to adults, we're limiting our customer base too much.

This is really not ethical. Why would you want individuals below the legal age of consent and/or the age of majority being exposed to "rapes, fetishes, and straight sex (or gay, bi, etc.)"? I'm not a "think of the children" knee-jerk reactionary, and I'm quite fond of a number of forms of AO titilation, but I think that content aimed at adults should be aimed at adults. Besides, minors simply won't be profitable in this segment - they have to secure credit cards from parents and find sufficient privacy to do something like this online, whereas adults have full autonomy and more disposable income.

Quote:
Basically something like terms of agreement or license or some nonsense that states the age restrictions. Since no one reads those anyways, we wouldn't be responsible for 9 year olds getting involved.

Sorry, that's not how it works. Regardless of what your agreement or license says, if your organization becomes aware that a minor is accessing your adult-only content, it is your responsibility to block that minor's access or you will be held criminally liable. And "becoming aware" doesn't take much more than the minor stating his/her age in a discussion forum operated by your organization.

I recommend you do a lot more research into the legal ramifications, as well as take a look at the competition - Red Light Center, 3Feel, etc.

#6 Jatora   Banned   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:38 AM

Are you 18 or older? [YES] [NO] - This satisfies all laws in any country. and you think its wrong to target straight sex at children? dumb. Also dumb about your post(Oluseyi) is that you think children can't secure their parents credit cards for a one time a month transaction. They do it for World of warcraft and a hundred different mmo's, this would only be a fraction harder.

#7 Oluseyi   Staff Emeritus   -  Reputation: 1678

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:39 AM

Quote:
Original post by AlphaCoder
The way we see it. This is a powerful tool for teaching children about sex without the risk of their bodies being violated.

Sorry, doesn't wash. "Teaching children about sex" doesn't jibe with "rape, fetishes..."

Quote:
Also, we're willing to host this game in whatever country is necessary to avoid such laws.

Are you also ready to move there?


I have no problem with an adult MMO. I just recommend dropping the "aiming at kids" angle. It's wrong and will get you in trouble, no matter what you do.

#8 ddn3   Members   -  Reputation: 1324

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:39 AM

Isn't that what 2nd life has become?

I think the games industry has matured enough for this and you might even get some notoriety out of it, if done well.

I would suggest going away from the route WoW took of catering to the low spec machines (for mass audience), instead push the envelope in terms of graphics, requiring high end video cards and stuff. Visuals are the key here.(Think mo-cap full 3D, in game 3D video editing and stuff)

Good Luck!

-ddn

#9 Jatora   Banned   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:40 AM


Quote:

Quote:
Also, we're willing to host this game in whatever country is necessary to avoid such laws.

Are you also ready to move there?


You don't have to move to a country to host a game there.

#10 laztrezort   Members   -  Reputation: 972

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:41 AM

Quote:
we'd like to design our system such that it wouldn't be too hard for minors to "find a way" into the system as well


really? really?

Quote:
This is a powerful tool for teaching children about sex

umm... really? really?

I like the porn as much as the next guy, but I'd be very, very clear of legal issues before pursuing this road any farther (not to mention mobs of angry parents with torches breaking down your doors, possibly me included)

#11 Oluseyi   Staff Emeritus   -  Reputation: 1678

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:41 AM

Quote:
Original post by Jatora
Are you 18 or older? [YES] [NO] - This satisfies all laws in any country. and you think its wrong to target straight sex at children? dumb. Also dumb about your post(Oluseyi) is that you think children can't secure their parents credit cards for a one time a month transaction. They do it for World of warcraft and a hundred different mmo's, this would only be a fraction harder.

Children can ask for their parents' credit cards for World of Warcraft. Most parents, however, won't be willing to subsidize a subscription to a pornographic virtual world, and would be on the warpath if they saw something to that effect on their monthly statement.

But forget all that. You are aiming for a business model where children are stealing from their parents to subscribe to a porn game? Really? And you think we're the dumb ones?

If you can't take criticism of your ideas, don't share them with anybody.

#12 Jatora   Banned   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:44 AM

Quote:
Original post by AlphaCoder
However we'd like to design our system such that it wouldn't be too hard for minors to "find a way" into the system as well. For subscription purposes of course. If we restrict it to adults, we're limiting our customer base too much.

Basically something like terms of agreement or license or some nonsense that states the age restrictions. Since no one reads those anyways, we wouldn't be responsible for 9 year olds getting involved.



Right in the beginning he stated this. Obviously he means that the subscription will have a different name than the game, something like World of Worcraft to trick the parents. He also never said that he was AIMING and relying for the child audience, he just said that they would be part of it. And yes, children steal their parent's credit cards all the time. If you think your kids dont, think again. Save your morale outrage for a post that concerns it.

#13 Oluseyi   Staff Emeritus   -  Reputation: 1678

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:49 AM

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Original post by Jatora
Quote:
Quote:
Also, we're willing to host this game in whatever country is necessary to avoid such laws.

Are you also ready to move there?

You don't have to move to a country to host a game there.

Hosting it there will likely not be enough to protect you from liability in your domiciled jurisdiction, particularly if your organization is incorporated in your locale.

Jeez. You guys are morons. Do The Research.

#14 Oluseyi   Staff Emeritus   -  Reputation: 1678

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:52 AM

Quote:
Original post by Jatora
Right in the beginning he stated this. Obviously he means that the subscription will have a different name than the game, something like World of Worcraft to trick the parents. He also never said that he was AIMING and relying for the child audience, he just said that they would be part of it. And yes, children steal their parent's credit cards all the time. If you think your kids dont, think again. Save your morale outrage for a post that concerns it.

I have no moral outrage; note that I approve of an adult MMO. I just think this is legally faulty reasoning. The deciding factor is not how you stated it or what you think, but what the laws are - and you've clearly done no research into the laws, in any jurisdiction.

(Oh, and if this post is ever unearthed and connected to you guys if/when you launch your MMO, it can be used to suggest fraudulent intentions - an explicit intention to circumvent the law on a socially sensitive topic. I wouldn't do it if I were you.)

But, hey. Fuck it. Do it. When you get arrested - if you bunch of apparent semi-competents can actually build the damn thing - I'll laugh.

#15 laztrezort   Members   -  Reputation: 972

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:57 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi...

yep, what he said.

Basically, it doesn't matter what we think, its the millions of people who are way more right-wing "save the children"-y "sex is bad" that are going to land you in trouble.

For the record, I think an adult MMO might be interesting though....


#16 AlphaCoder   Banned   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 11:57 AM

Quote:
Original post by Oluseyi
Quote:
Original post by Jatora
Are you 18 or older? [YES] [NO] - This satisfies all laws in any country. and you think its wrong to target straight sex at children? dumb. Also dumb about your post(Oluseyi) is that you think children can't secure their parents credit cards for a one time a month transaction. They do it for World of warcraft and a hundred different mmo's, this would only be a fraction harder.

Children can ask for their parents' credit cards for World of Warcraft. Most parents, however, won't be willing to subsidize a subscription to a pornographic virtual world, and would be on the warpath if they saw something to that effect on their monthly statement.

But forget all that. You are aiming for a business model where children are stealing from their parents to subscribe to a porn game? Really? And you think we're the dumb ones?

If you can't take criticism of your ideas, don't share them with anybody.


Actually I appreciate criticism. I believe you're confusing me with Jatora.

#17 GarmGarf   Members   -  Reputation: 154

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 12:16 PM

Here people, this is the game design forum and the morality/legal issues are irrelevant here.



Now, while many MMORPGs aim to possess an engaging gameplay experience, they usually strive for excellence in another area too: the area of character development.

While a game world where the users can engage in gameplay of a sexual nature is all fine and good for those who enjoy it, alone that would be more of a toy, simulation or socialising application than a game. To make it a game, there must be goals, and the general goal in MMORPGs tends to be the goal of general character development.

Basically my main game design advice, or idea, would be the implementation of this dimension of character development in some shape or form. An obvious example would be that players could gain experience for their character for every sexual encounter they execute. If the game allowed for partners to choose whether they were satisfied or not, or the game chose such a verdict through some calculations or whatever (or a mix), then the more satisfied the partner, the more experience could be gained for the character.

An additional idea would be that experience could be used to purchases sexual abilities, such as sex positions, and that players could use their experience in some shape or form to develop their skills in the various sexual positions or moves (or these skills could be developed through attempting the moves/positions). The better the characters get, the more demanding individuals they could satisfy.

I suppose some character stats (attributes) could be implemented into the game, like sex appeal ("hotness"), "cuteness", endurance, and etc, and characters could be given different tastes in partners.

An additional idea would be to implement money into the game; so maybe players could choose to sell their bodies (prostitution) or work as strippers or run sex shops or whatever.

Another thing worth watching out for is balancing the sexes. Basically it is advisable to make both choices equally as viable. There is also the issue of whether characters with some unclear sex should be allowed to be made (e.g: individuals with both the sexes' genitals), but it would probably be wise to just avoid implementing that because both a complicated game design system would have to be composed as well as additional modelling work.

Also I suppose to make it simple, just allow characters to either be heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual (there isn't much point in implementing an "asexual" option for a sexual game). I know other sexual orientation types can exist in real life in between the shades of grey, but I think that is enough for a video game. I guess you could also implement means for characters to be able to change their sexual orientation in-game, either through counselling, being raped or some other means.

#18 Deyja   Members   -  Reputation: 920

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 12:25 PM

Quote:
For the record, I think an adult MMO might be interesting though....


For most guys, it will be interesting for about five minutes two or three times a week.

..Actually, that sounds like a brilliant strategy for an MMO. You only need enough hardware to support players being logged in fifteen minutes a week each!

#19 AlphaCoder   Banned   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 01:06 PM

Quote:
Original post by GarmGarf
Here people, this is the game design forum and the morality/legal issues are irrelevant here.



Now, while many MMORPGs aim to possess an engaging gameplay experience, they usually strive for excellence in another area too: the area of character development.

While a game world where the users can engage in gameplay of a sexual nature is all fine and good for those who enjoy it, alone that would be more of a toy, simulation or socialising application than a game. To make it a game, there must be goals, and the general goal in MMORPGs tends to be the goal of general character development.

Basically my main game design advice, or idea, would be the implementation of this dimension of character development in some shape or form. An obvious example would be that players could gain experience for their character for every sexual encounter they execute. If the game allowed for partners to choose whether they were satisfied or not, or the game chose such a verdict through some calculations or whatever (or a mix), then the more satisfied the partner, the more experience could be gained for the character.

An additional idea would be that experience could be used to purchases sexual abilities, such as sex positions, and that players could use their experience in some shape or form to develop their skills in the various sexual positions or moves (or these skills could be developed through attempting the moves/positions). The better the characters get, the more demanding individuals they could satisfy.

I suppose some character stats (attributes) could be implemented into the game, like sex appeal ("hotness"), "cuteness", endurance, and etc, and characters could be given different tastes in partners.

An additional idea would be to implement money into the game; so maybe players could choose to sell their bodies (prostitution) or work as strippers or run sex shops or whatever.

Another thing worth watching out for is balancing the sexes. Basically it is advisable to make both choices equally as viable. There is also the issue of whether characters with some unclear sex should be allowed to be made (e.g: individuals with both the sexes' genitals), but it would probably be wise to just avoid implementing that because both a complicated game design system would have to be composed as well as additional modelling work.

Also I suppose to make it simple, just allow characters to either be heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual (there isn't much point in implementing an "asexual" option for a sexual game). I know other sexual orientation types can exist in real life in between the shades of grey, but I think that is enough for a video game. I guess you could also implement means for characters to be able to change their sexual orientation in-game, either through counselling, being raped or some other means.


Some very good ideas that have got me thinking along a whole bunch of new avenues.

While the primary goal has been to create an interactive pornographic experience, we've had to admit that calling it an MMO is the most apt way of describing it.

But in that same light, designing it like an MMO would have the added benefit of giving it a degree of depth that would solve the problem of (as the poster after you said) guys logging on for five minutes a couple times a week.

I was thinking something along the lines of not having (or only to a minimal extent) an NPC-route to sexual gratification for your character.

If you have to interface with another player, you have to at least try. And if there are some statistics/attributes that you can earn along the way that might make you a more desirable mate, then this would aid you in your goal of finding another player with which to engage in said activities.

But there has to be a balance in mind between difficulty and gratification.

Thank you for your input.

#20 Codeka   Members   -  Reputation: 1157

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 01:36 PM

It seems like having "real" people as your partner would lead to a lot of opportunities for abuse. Just look at what happened Sony first release "Playstation Home". The place was full of idiots who went around "raping" every female character they could find.

Obviously, Playstation Home wasn't designed to be "pornographic" in nature, but I just don't see what incentive women would have for joining your game if initial results from Playstation Home is any indication of the kind of treatment they can expect.

Sure, you could have men play as female characters, but then that leaves you open for other kinds of abuse (imagine knowing you're having "sex" with some pimply teenaged boy on the end of that connection?)

Pornography is usually something people watch in the privacy of their own homes. I think, in general, people would not be willing to "share" that experience with other people. You might find that some people would be attracted to the idea of a "common" experience, but if, as you say, alienating potential customers is not something you want to do, then I think making it only PvP (as it were) is a bad idea.




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