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How much do Software Engineers make (entry level)?


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#21 Telastyn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3730

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 07:58 AM

I'm not sure what size and style organizations you've worked with, but I've never been at a place which tolerated negotiation. I've never even heard of it being done with anyone under director level. Any place large enough to have a dedicated HR department will have codified limits on the salaries of positions, and the rate of raises allowed. Any company big enough to have departments will have limits on the number of positions and the amount of budget available for wages. Even if the technical manager valued you enough to offer more, they're handcuffed by bureaucracy.

That doesn't stop you from shopping around of course, or using leverage to get the most that the company can offer within the constraints. I just think the power of negotiation is being overstated. It won't work miracles at your average company.

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#22 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 22783

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:08 AM

Quote:
Original post by Telastyn
I've never been at a place which tolerated negotiation. I've never even heard of it being done with anyone under director level. Any place large enough to have a dedicated HR department will have codified limits on the salaries of positions, and the rate of raises allowed. ...
It won't work miracles at your average company.

Odd. Every place I've been at, with the exception of unskilled manual labor before college, has allowed for some negotiation.

Although it is possible that you only worked at places that do not negotiate a salary, it is more likely that you have simply missed opportunities to make more money.



Books like "What Color Is Your Parachte" discuss the basics of salary negotiation. There are thousands of websites dedecated to salary negotiation.

Salary negotiation is *VERY* important. The company may be good, but it is in their own interests to pay you the least that will keep you happy there.

You are certainly correct that there are limits on salaries and other compensation rates. But you need to know that they are *NOT* going to offer you the maximum salary at your first offer.


I was only involved in the salary side of management at one company in the past. I know one person who took the very first offer and was giddy about it --- yet it was a fairly low offer. I know another person who was initially offered $50K and was able to negotiate $74K --- roughly 150% of what they were considering because of a demo they brought and their negotiation skills.

While we did take some efforts to keep salaries approximately balanced across the board, they were never fixed in stone.

#23 Atrix256   Members   -  Reputation: 510

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:15 AM

If someone else hasn't mentioned it, game developer magazine does a salary survey every year and reports on different departments (programming, art, production etc) and skill level as well as region.

It's very useful, i forget which month the last one came out in but maybe you can dig up some old game dev magazines.

i think it might have been the april issue?

#24 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10163

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 10:39 AM

Quote:
Original post by Atrix256
If someone else hasn't mentioned it, game developer magazine does a salary survey every year and reports on different departments (programming, art, production etc) and skill level as well as region.

It's very useful, i forget which month the last one came out in but maybe you can dig up some old game dev magazines.

i think it might have been the april issue?

There's a direct link above. (^_^)


#25 daviangel   Members   -  Reputation: 600

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 08:33 PM

Quote:
Original post by frob
Quote:
Original post by Telastyn
I've never been at a place which tolerated negotiation. I've never even heard of it being done with anyone under director level. Any place large enough to have a dedicated HR department will have codified limits on the salaries of positions, and the rate of raises allowed. ...
It won't work miracles at your average company.

Odd. Every place I've been at, with the exception of unskilled manual labor before college, has allowed for some negotiation.

Although it is possible that you only worked at places that do not negotiate a salary, it is more likely that you have simply missed opportunities to make more money.



Books like "What Color Is Your Parachte" discuss the basics of salary negotiation. There are thousands of websites dedecated to salary negotiation.

Salary negotiation is *VERY* important. The company may be good, but it is in their own interests to pay you the least that will keep you happy there.

You are certainly correct that there are limits on salaries and other compensation rates. But you need to know that they are *NOT* going to offer you the maximum salary at your first offer.


I was only involved in the salary side of management at one company in the past. I know one person who took the very first offer and was giddy about it --- yet it was a fairly low offer. I know another person who was initially offered $50K and was able to negotiate $74K --- roughly 150% of what they were considering because of a demo they brought and their negotiation skills.

While we did take some efforts to keep salaries approximately balanced across the board, they were never fixed in stone.

Yeah unless it's a government job with fixed wages or something just about every private sector job allows it but it's not like they advertise it so it's a skill worth learning about. Hell even a manual labor job I got at Home Depot years ago I shafted myself because I accepted the first offer they gave me and was pissed off later when I found out a coworker that got hired doing the same job was hired at a wage several dollars above mine and I asked him what he did to deserve that and he said he just asked!



#26 Telastyn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3730

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 03:58 AM

Quote:
Original post by frob
Quote:
Original post by Telastyn
I've never been at a place which tolerated negotiation. I've never even heard of it being done with anyone under director level. Any place large enough to have a dedicated HR department will have codified limits on the salaries of positions, and the rate of raises allowed. ...
It won't work miracles at your average company.

Odd. Every place I've been at, with the exception of unskilled manual labor before college, has allowed for some negotiation.

Although it is possible that you only worked at places that do not negotiate a salary, it is more likely that you have simply missed opportunities to make more money.


Quite possible on both counts (or a mix of the two).

Quote:

Books like "What Color Is Your Parachte" discuss the basics of salary negotiation. There are thousands of websites dedecated to salary negotiation.

Salary negotiation is *VERY* important. The company may be good, but it is in their own interests to pay you the least that will keep you happy there.


Again, I might have only seen the crappy side of the fence, but most companies tend not to even care if you're happy there. If you think the offer is unfair, there's others who don't. Sure; I find that to be ultimately detrimental to them as a company, especially at my one position which had a lengthy learning curve.

And again, there's of course ways of making yourself vital to the company, but every time I've seen someone do that the company quickly takes action to distribute knowledge and can the guy they see as blackmailing them.


But it might just be that I've been stuck working at the bottom of the barrel...




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