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no degree,no experience... final destination.


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#1 Bru   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 11:39 PM

'my dream is to become a game programmer in the programming industry!' well... it's not exacly the purpose of my life,but i do want to work in the game industry in usa. but so far,i am realy afraid i wont be able to get a job even in the smallest companys since they all seem like unless you are a genious,you need either offical experience in the industry or a degree in order to get a job as a game programmer. i am 17 years old,been programming with directX for two years. i have and probably will not have a degree any time soon,not to mention i never realy worked in the game industry before so i dont have an 'offical experience'. oh yeah,and right now i dont even live in usa,so i'll need to get a visa which sounds to me like something that will make people throw my application to the trash can even faster. it sounds realy hard to me for me to get a job as a game programmer without a degree or experience,so what am i suppoused to do considering the fact i cannot do a degree anytime soon(low high school grades + no money)? i thought of studying unreal script,but i am not sure it will help me get a job and it sounds like a lot to learn.

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#2 Evil Steve   Members   -  Reputation: 1955

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:05 AM

If you don't have a degree, you need a good portfolio. Just saying you have 2 years experience with DirectX won't be enough, you'll have to show something like a few game demos or graphics demos.

You'll only need a visa if you want to work in the US, you can still apply to games companies in your country.

#3 yaustar   Members   -  Reputation: 530

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:06 AM

Where are you?

#4 Bru   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:45 AM

i live in israel. the gaming industry here is not very... alive. its just that i wasn't born yet. so working here is not much of an option.

i am working though on a big project(which will take me a lot of time to finish) and a small project( a tower defence game i hope to finish in 2 weeks),both are based on my engine that is based on directx.
and something that i learned is that people dont care how much effort i've put into the game or the engine.even if i wrote it in pure assembly,if it's not impressive,it's not impressive. and if it's not impressive,it probably wont get me into the game industry...

#5 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8647

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 04:49 AM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
i live in israel. the gaming industry here is not very... alive. its just that i wasn't born yet. so working here is not much of an option.

http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson64.htm

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#6 Fenrisulvur   Members   -  Reputation: 186

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 05:36 AM

You're going to need a degree - partially because the game industry job market is extremely competitive, but most significantly because game programming is an extremely difficult profession even when sized up against programming in other fields, and you're not ready yet by any stretch.
If you can't get directly into a degree program, look for bridging courses or any other stepping stones you can find. If money's an issue, find whatever employment you can.

Professional game programming is a major career to which to aspire, don't expect to step into it before you are very skilled.

#7 Bru   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:04 AM

Quote:
Original post by Fenrisulvur
You're going to need a degree - partially because the game industry job market is extremely competitive, but most significantly because game programming is an extremely difficult profession even when sized up against programming in other fields, and you're not ready yet by any stretch.
If you can't get directly into a degree program, look for bridging courses or any other stepping stones you can find. If money's an issue, find whatever employment you can.

Professional game programming is a major career to which to aspire, don't expect to step into it before you are very skilled.


i guess money is a small problem. to actually get into college i need some good high school grades,which i dont have. so that's why i am asking about getting a job without a degree.

#8 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8647

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:06 AM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
i guess money is a small problem. to actually get into college i need some good high school grades,which i dont have.

You should find out what you can do to improve your chances of being accepted to a university. Extra courses, extra tests...

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#9 Rycross   Members   -  Reputation: 576

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:07 AM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
i guess money is a small problem. to actually get into college i need some good high school grades,which i dont have. so that's why i am asking about getting a job without a degree.


Grades will make it hard, but you can start college at small community colleges, maintain good grades, and then transfer into a better college after proving that you're capable of applying yourself to your studies.

Bad grades and no portfolio are signs that you are not motivated. You need to correct that if you want to better your prospects.

#10 joew   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3536

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:53 AM

If you look at requirements for a work VISA you either have to have a degree or the company hiring you has to prove that you have the exact experience they need. Getting a VISA without a degree is extremely hard for both the company and the applicant so the majority would overlook your application right from the start.

#11 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8647

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:08 AM

Quote:
Original post by Brui thought of studying unreal script,but i am not sure it will help me get a job and it sounds like a lot to learn.

Wow, what a lazy kid U R!
You need a serious change in your attitude, if you want to work in games.
(Note the word "work" in the previous sentence.)
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#12 Bru   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:22 AM

Quote:
Original post by Tom Sloper
Quote:
Original post by Brui thought of studying unreal script,but i am not sure it will help me get a job and it sounds like a lot to learn.

Wow, what a lazy kid U R!
You need a serious change in your attitude, if you want to work in games.
(Note the word "work" in the previous sentence.)

i am lazy.but when i said it sounds like a lot to learn i meant it sounds like too much effort to learn something that i am not sure will help me.

#13 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8647

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:07 PM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
Quote:
Original post by Tom Sloper
Wow, what a lazy kid U R!
You need a serious change in your attitude, if you want to work in games.
(Note the word "work" in the previous sentence.)

i am lazy.but when i said it sounds like a lot to learn i meant it sounds like too much effort to learn something that i am not sure will help me.

Not only are you lazy, but you also have no passion for learning how games are made.
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#14 Rycross   Members   -  Reputation: 576

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:27 PM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
i am lazy.but when i said it sounds like a lot to learn i meant it sounds like too much effort to learn something that i am not sure will help me.


So I have to ask, why do you want to work in the games industry? Statistically speaking, it fares poorly for programmers in terms of salary received and work-life balance compared to "normal" jobs. Of all the people I know in game development, they are all there because they loved making games. By making games, I don't mean dreaming about being a game designer while playing Halo on their XBox. I mean they actually went out, studied, learned, and experimented with making games because it was fun.

If its a motivation problem, I'm completely sympathetic. I personally lost a lot of motivation around the time I graduated from college, and didn't really do any game development for five years afterward. I'm trying to make up for lost time now (and having a blast doing so). But what you're telling us is that the only reason you'd bother to study or tinker with something is if you got something out of it. That's a huge red flag that game development is a career mistake for you.

And to re-iterate, making games is completely, utterly different than playing games. Just because you're a gamer doesn't mean you belong in the game industry.

#15 KillaChaos0   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:32 PM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
Quote:
Original post by Fenrisulvur
You're going to need a degree - partially because the game industry job market is extremely competitive, but most significantly because game programming is an extremely difficult profession even when sized up against programming in other fields, and you're not ready yet by any stretch.
If you can't get directly into a degree program, look for bridging courses or any other stepping stones you can find. If money's an issue, find whatever employment you can.

Professional game programming is a major career to which to aspire, don't expect to step into it before you are very skilled.


i guess money is a small problem. to actually get into college i need some good high school grades,which i dont have. so that's why i am asking about getting a job without a degree.


If you were in the US, no degree usually means McDonalds. I am not trying to get you down, but think realistically. At your age almost every US student is on their way to earn a degree. How do you think you would stack up against an "average" student with a degree (who probably has 2+ years experience in not only DirectX, but modeling, game design, etc). Even if you were in the US your chances would be slim (especially with no portfolio).

In the US, I would imagine its extremely rare to find a 17 year old in the gaming industry. If I were you, and I was serious about getting into the gaming industry, I would try an get a degree at a local school, and do extremely well, then possibly transfer to a US school (provided you can find funding).

#16 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 6091

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 01:26 PM

Recap: No motivation, almost no skills, no grades worth mentioning, no degrees worth mentioning, and to top it off you want to get hired in the US (which is a huge relocation headache) when many, many people in the country are having trouble holding a job at all. What exactly would compel an employer to even talk to you?

It's simple. Go to college, or go work fast food/retail. You don't have other options.

#17 Obscure   Moderators   -  Reputation: 174

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 02:39 PM

The only thing stopping you from succeeding is you.
Dan Marchant - Business Development Consultant
www.obscure.co.uk

#18 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 14273

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 05:50 PM

What makes you think you really want to work in the game industry?


From what you have described of yourself, I would predict that you'd last six months before either being fired or quitting out of frustration and exhaustion.

My advice? Find something you truly care about doing, and pursue that instead.

#19 Atrix256   Members   -  Reputation: 510

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:35 PM

Quote:
Original post by Bru
'my dream is to become a game programmer in the programming industry!'
well... it's not exacly the purpose of my life,but i do want to work in the game industry in usa. but so far,i am realy afraid i wont be able to get a job even in the smallest companys since they all seem like unless you are a genious,you need either offical experience in the industry or a degree in order to get a job as a game programmer.

i am 17 years old,been programming with directX for two years. i have and probably will not have a degree any time soon,not to mention i never realy worked in the game industry before so i dont have an 'offical experience'. oh yeah,and right now i dont even live in usa,so i'll need to get a visa which sounds to me like something that will make people throw my application to the trash can even faster.

it sounds realy hard to me for me to get a job as a game programmer without a degree or experience,so what am i suppoused to do considering the fact i cannot do a degree anytime soon(low high school grades + no money)?
i thought of studying unreal script,but i am not sure it will help me get a job and it sounds like a lot to learn.


Here's what you do...

#1 - get any job where you can support yourself
#2 - go to school and pay for it using student loans. You don't have to start repaying school loans until 6 months after you stop going (graduate, or take a break).
#3 - DONT TAKE A BREAK IN THE MIDDLE HEHE. get a 2yr or 4yr degree in something programming related (im assuming you want to be a programmer here)
#4 - as a fresh graduate you'll find plenty of oportunities in the game industry and you'll be able to start payin off your student loans, cause you'll probably be making a lot more than you were.

it does seem impossible but it really isn't. just gotta do it (:

anyone can get student loans too, seriously... so don't feel like that is a barrier.

good luck man (:

#20 Bru   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:46 AM

woooah wait a moment,now that hurts. it's also NOT true. i want to put emphasis on the fact that i do like games,and even more i like creating games. when i said i am lazy i didnt mean i am too lazy to study something in order to improve my knowledge in game programming, i meant that i am generaly lazy when it comes to doing stuff that i dont like(which does NOT include game programming since i like that a lot).
i do have the motivation to put effort in it,and i want to work as a game programmer not because of the sallery,but because it realy is something that i can consider fun. infact,i think the game industry is the only place where i can work for 10 hours a day without going insane.
i got no idea why you got the impression i have no passion for games,but please forget about it because i do have motivation and will to be a game programmer.

and yes, i know, no degree,low grades and no offical experience means it's gona be heck hard for me to get a job, and that's why i opened this thread asking for tips.






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