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#1 hairybeavet   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 09:49 PM

so i have been playing with code for the past 6 years but like most young men in america, parting and gym caught my eye for the college years, i have experience in flash, jass and a few others that is basic stuff. I enjoy making games, working on code and just making your first "gun" shoot a bullet, it is exciting. I am working on my AA now and looking at this industry, it seems to be almost to much to get into the industry. I mean I would love to be a game developer but to even get into a small company is hard to get an intership, i mean i work as a waiter and going to back to school, but any company for intership wants to work me more then what i can give. this is really become a damper on what i thought to be my carreer. I mean should I start reading C++ code and start working on that before i try to even get an intership? and what engines should I try to familarize myself with?

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#2 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8697

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 04:15 AM

Quote:
Original post by hairybeavet
1. should I start reading C++ code and start working on that before i try to even get an intership?
2. and what engines should I try to familarize myself with?

1. You should work to improve your English writing, grammar, and spelling. You say you're going for an Associates' degree? A bachelors' degree in Computer Science is standard -- an Associates degree is insufficient. You might want to View the Forum FAQs (above).
Also, don't worry about internships yet. Get educated first.
2. You should ask beginner questions about programming environments and languages in the For Beginners forum. In this forum we discuss education, portfolios, job applications, etc.
But in general, it doesn't matter what tools, languages, or engines you start with -- you'll learn several of them in the course of your education anyway, and will be expected to be familiar with several of them when you start applying for jobs.

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#3 hairybeavet   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 05:16 AM

Quote:
Original post by Tom Sloper


1.You should work to improve your English writing, grammar, and spelling.
2. You say you're going for an Associates' degree? A bachelors' degree in Computer Science is standard -- an Associates degree is insufficient.
3.In this forum we discuss education, portfolios, job applications, etc.


1.I think the fact is that I am from the south, and that maybe my grammar is different, but i re-read my post to make sure I have a full complete thought. I think that maybe it might be the difference in how we talk.
2.well i plan to get my BA but an AA comes before the BA so i was just letting everyone know the education level, and I already know about 5 languages but only jass and flash are the only two I feel I can make a game out of them.
3.I was under the impression that I was asking that for advice on were to go as far as either get my BA before looking to get into the business or maybe just skip waiting for the classes and start learning another language on my own. The problem with that is that being self taught is something that comes with a grain of salt without a portfolio.

#4 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8697

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:06 AM

Quote:
Original post by hairybeavet
1.I think the fact is that I am from the south, and that maybe my grammar is different, but i re-read my post to make sure I have a full complete thought. I think that maybe it might be the difference in how we talk.
2.well i plan to get my BA but an AA comes before the BA so i was just letting everyone know the education level, and I already know about 5 languages but only jass and flash are the only two I feel I can make a game out of them.
3.I was under the impression that I was asking that for advice on were to go as far as either get my BA before looking to get into the business or maybe just skip waiting for the classes and start learning another language on my own. The problem with that is that being self taught is something that comes with a grain of salt without a portfolio.

1. You need to capitalize the word "I" every time you write it. The word "internship" must have two N's in it every time you write it. I'm not going to go back and analyze your first post; let's drop it.
2. Good, get an AA and then get a BA. Good plan.
3. Good, don't count on the self-teaching thing. I like that too. You're not an accredited teacher, so it's best not to count on yourself for all your learning. But what languages or engines to learn is a technical question, not a breaking in question. By all means, pursue learning yourself, though. And you can start with any language or environment you want to.

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#5 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 19006

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 08:58 AM

Quote:
Original post by hairybeavet
1.I think the fact is that I am from the south, and that maybe my grammar is different, but i re-read my post to make sure I have a full complete thought. I think that maybe it might be the difference in how we talk.
I copied the text into MS Word. It reports 26 grammar and spelling errors. Even with those corrections your post is very difficult to read. Your second post was slightly better. I believe this is not due to differences in how we talk, but in how you choose to write.

Perhaps you should consider composing your posts in a word processor. Writing with proper spelling and grammar are important life skills. Clear, correct, precise writing is important on technical forums.

College writing classes can help you learn to express yourself clearly and succinctly. Those classes are required in most schools.
Quote:
2.well i plan to get my BA but an AA comes before the BA so i was just letting everyone know the education level, and I already know about 5 languages but only jass and flash are the only two I feel I can make a game out of them.
A computer science degree is not about learning specific programming languages. It is about learning how to program. Programming is all about algorithms and data structures. It includes the study of algorithm complexity, understanding what is computable, and learning what cannot be computed. It includes the study of how algorithms relate to physical machines. Those skills apply to any language.

It doesn't matter how many programming languages you know: if you don't have the background then you can't write quality programs.
Quote:
3.I was under the impression that I was asking that for advice on were to go as far as either get my BA before looking to get into the business or maybe just skip waiting for the classes and start learning another language on my own. The problem with that is that being self taught is something that comes with a grain of salt without a portfolio.
It did not appear that way to me. Thanks for the clarification to your question.

I recommend waiting until your final year in college before you start your search for your career. You might be fortunate to find a career-related job before then, but your focus should be on education rather than employment.

We get piles of applications sent to us. If they don't have a bachelor's degree or are not in their final year of school, they are quickly discarded. We don't bother to look at programmer portfolios until after the application has survived several rounds of pruning.

#6 hairybeavet   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 11:50 AM

First off, sorry about the grammatical errors. I know the lack of comma's messes with the flow of my speech. I guess it is different when you mentally insert them. I will give it another year before applying for internships.

Last question,
This is more a legal question then anything else.
I was thinking of starting a club for game design at college. I understand that you can't use the school's programs for distribution for a profit but I was curious if using the schools resources was illegal. I mean the weekly use of a meeting center and their computers. I doubt any EA titles will come out of it but markets such as shareware and the 5 dollar rack at software stores is not a bad way to get test out our skills. I was just curious if this would be illegal since the school is non-profit. I am going to set up a meeting but it takes a while to make a new club. I just wanted to see if this was a fail before I started a month process.

#7 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8697

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 12:07 PM

Quote:
Original post by hairybeavet
I was thinking of starting a club for game design at college. I understand that you can't use the school's programs for distribution for a profit but I was curious if using the schools resources was illegal. I mean the weekly use of a meeting center and their computers.

Check with the school. Most schools encourage students to join together and collaborate on creative endeavors.
But were you saying you want to create a club to make games for sale? That may be unrealistic, the matter of whether school rules permit that aside.
If you're making games in school, you ought to be doing it for learning purposes -- because you want to learn how to make games. Learning how to run a business is also a good thing, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it, don't you think?

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#8 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9639

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 12:09 PM

Quote:
Original post by hairybeavet
Last question,
This is more a legal question then anything else.
I was thinking of starting a club for game design at college. I understand that you can't use the school's programs for distribution for a profit but I was curious if using the schools resources was illegal. I mean the weekly use of a meeting center and their computers. I doubt any EA titles will come out of it but markets such as shareware and the 5 dollar rack at software stores is not a bad way to get test out our skills. I was just curious if this would be illegal since the school is non-profit. I am going to set up a meeting but it takes a while to make a new club. I just wanted to see if this was a fail before I started a month process.
There are multiple issues at work here. IANAL, but off the top of my head:

- The school may hold the commercial rights to anything you produce in a class, or anything that you produce on school equipment/software. This is less likely at a smaller/less-commercial school, but still something you should seek clarification for.

- The software on the school computers may be licensed for educational/non-commercial purposes only. This may vary for each piece of software (including the operating system), so verify each separately.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#9 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8697

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Posted 15 February 2010 - 06:20 PM

Let's defer the legal question on this forum, shall we?
Just ask the school.
But if you simply can't wait, then ask this question in the Business & Law forum.
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#10 MAEnthoven   Members   -  Reputation: 194

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 11:52 AM

I know my school (Northwestern University) and two of my friend's schools (University of Texas @ Austin and Tufts) have basically the same policy - you retain the intellectual property and copyrights, but the school retains any physical property. If you were to use the school's wood in the workshop to make things, the school would have rights to it. Similarly, if you were to use school servers as a form of distribution, you're giving the school rights to it. In either case, just because the school has the "rights" to it doesn't mean they're going to take it from you. Lawsuits between a school and its students make the school look bad because it appears like they're trying to take over various research and developments.

Make sure that if you do develop on school computers, you save your work in a repository that's NOT used by the school. If your goal really is to make games for profit, you're probably going to want to set up an SVN or something else anyway.

I know Northwestern does have a graduate school club that operates on campus that makes iPhone applications, and they do make a significant profit, and they all get to keep it. However, what Tom Sloper said is correct - the odds are very slim. You should focus on making games for portfolio and education purposes, not for profit.

Lastly, correct grammar/spelling is essential. Everything you write in the online world needs to look professional, even if it's just some forum post. You're competing against thousands of students that are also trying to break into the industry. I can guarantee that there are at least a thousand people who have the same or better skill set as you, but always type correctly. You need to fight for every inch you can get, including how you type things out.

#11 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 12:19 PM

Protip: All those agreements you sign when you enroll for the first time and all the agreements you sign for the rest of your life... you should read those.

I'm not positive (because I don't go there anymore), but I think Digipen has a clause in their legal documents about them owning everything you create for a school project.



#12 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8697

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 03:42 PM

This thread has veered off the topic of this forum.
This forum is for breaking-in discussions.
Legal matters belong in the Business/Legal forum.
This thread is now closed.




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