Anyone seen Inception yet?,
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Posted 08 August 2010 - 02:37 PM
Secondly, I think it is required that Cobb be a mark of inception. What he goes through so closely matches the description of what Fischer goes through (catharsis) it simply has got to be inception.
How Cobb's inception was done and by whom seems to me the real question of the film. I think it has to be just Ariadne. There's the Penrose scene with just Arthur and Ariadne which would not exist if all characters were simply plotting to fix Cobb, and there's the Fischer hospital level scene which also does nothing for Cobb who's not there to witness it. Besides, the Fischer arc is extremely well done and I won't stand for it to be not real or not relevant in itself.
I think Ariadne stole more than she lets on from sharing Cobb's memory dungeon dream - the film is ambiguous on how architects teach their designs to the dreamers, but I think it has to be through shared dreaming automatically uploading the whole level - and she does see the "train" memory which is set in the limbo world Cobb and Mal built - so she could have at least some general idea of the layout.
I think she put the train in the first dream level on purpose, and the same for the kids / broken glass Cobb sees in level two, both to convince Cobb he has to confront Mal and forgive himself or never see his kids again. Cobb was damaged goods but he definitely wasn't such a trainwreck as to bring unsolicited trains on level 1 of a dream - yes, Mal showed up on level two in the Saito dream at the start, but that was it.
I think when Cobb and Ariadne use the dream machine on the hospital level they don't go to limbo but to a level 4 dream - Ariadne's recreation of Cob&Mal's limbo world - she being the dreamer.
This explains how Cobb is young and Saito is old when Cobb gets thrown in limbo: he doesn't take the kick from Ariadne's dream, but he does drown in the van in the level 1 dream, and only then he gets to limbo, which by now is Saito's world. It takes maybe 5 minutes for Cobb to drown, which accounts for Saito's growing old (we don't know how fast limbo time is compared to level 1 time - Yusuf says it might be decades, it might be infinity, and Cobb's experience there doesn't really measure it).
To tie the loose ends in my theory, the Mal we see on the hospital level needs not be Cobb's projection but may be an automaton Ariadne designed into the level. We don't know that fake Mal's gun in that level is a real gun and actually kills Fischer (it may be it just stuns him unconscious), and the defibrilator is also designed by Mal and may undo the stun effect, and possibly affect Ariadne who's dreaming nearby in unknown ways - the physics of the hospital level after all are still designed by her. Fischer and Mal on the fourth level may both be Cobb's projections.
Eames may or may not be in on Ariadne's plan. Cobb's descending into limbo to rescue Saito wasn't planned by Ariadne, but if everything had gone according to her plan that wouldn't have been necessary.
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Posted 08 August 2010 - 07:13 PM
MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW:
Its established that the architects design the dream spaces. But only twice were they the actual dreamers...Lucas Hass is the dreamer of level one in the opening of the film. And Ellen Page is the dreamer when she folds Paris upon itself.
The main dream to place inception follows like this:
Top "real world" layer they are all on the 747.
Level one dream 'rainy city streets': The chemist is the dreamer. The chemist, Cobb, Ellen Page, the forger, Saito, Arthur, and Cillian Murphy are in this dream
Level two dream 'hotel': Author is the dreamer. Cobb, Ellen Page, the forger (as teh hot girl and the family lawyer/godfather), Saito, Arthur, and Cillian Murphy are in this dream
Level three 'snowbound fort': The forger (Tom Hardy) is the dreamer. Cobb, Ellen Page, the forger, Saito, and Cillian Murphy are in this dream.
Level four 'Cobbs city': Cobb is the dreamer. Cobb, Ellen Page, and Cillian Murphy are in this dream.
Saito is shot in Level one, and "dies" in level three AFTER level four dream has started. This is important, as it ties into the idea that Cobb finds Saito in "limbo". Following the rules the film estblished at the point (IE: Arthur cannot be in levels three or four as his dream level two is continueing)...Two things must have happend off screen after dream level four (cobbs dream) is finnished...The other chracters in level three tied Saito into Cobbs dream before getting kicked back up to level one...Or Cobb woke from level four dream then went over and tied himself into Saito's "limbo" dream.
Which ties back into the film opening.
Lucas Hass is the dreamer of level one 'Saitos house as the mob attacks'. Lucas Hass, Cobb, Arthur, Saito are in this dream.
Saito is the dreamer of level two 'Saito's other house and limbo'. Cobb, Arthur and Saito are in this dream.
Note: Saito is awake from level two, holding Arthur at gunpoint before Cobb splashes into the tub.
This also ties back into the very opening...Cobb washed up on shore and taken to see old Saito.
As for the "totem" (spinning top thing) Saito holds it in the opening scene of the film. Which according to Arthur is a bad thing in the scene where the totem function is spelled out (he wouldn't let Ellen Page even touch his loaded die totem). This (and the fact it was actualy Cobbs wife totem) means Cobb no longer has the ability to tell dream from reality. Cobb never had a totem to begin with.
Which is the key piece of the puzzle to understanding the ending. Cobb gets home, spins the top...and BEFORE watching if the totem falls over...heads outside to meet his kids. His kids are Cobbs new totem. Doesn't matter if the top falls over or not...To see his kids faces, he had to work out the guilt he had over his wife...But she was only a personification of his memory of her (Cobb never shoots her). So the validity of totems is questionable.
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Posted 08 August 2010 - 09:19 PM
Naturally, I would've preferred an unambiguous ending but since it's open to interpretation, I'm simply sticking with it's got to be reality. It makes it easier for me to accept that there was a point to the whole thing.
Ultimately, it's a great movie. Everything was well done. Also, the hotel action sequence during the van's free fall was the best. Fact.
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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:40 PM
And about questioning our own reality, I think it's always a valid point. I find the world is more "real", whatever that is, the more I sleep.
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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:27 AM
A very complex and rich story and narrative, and I don't think I'm actually intelligent enough to get my head around all of it. The story would probably make sense after another 10 viewings, but I found the film too long and don't think I could sit through it again.
8/10 for the special effects.
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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:29 AM
Original post by Hodgman
There is no spoiler tag';void(0);">Show spoiler.
Hmm, odd... Like, you could potentially override login boxes/steal cookes etc on the page to submit to your own site, seems kind of like an issue...
All your posts are belong to me.
[Edited by - M2tM on August 9, 2010 5:29:17 PM]
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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:07 AM
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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:40 AM
I couldn't ask much more from a movie. I've read some critics saying that this movie wasn't thought-provoking but seeing how many people didn't get it (even when it was tutorialed at the beginning and I was able to follow it without effort) I have to disagree.
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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:23 AM
from the movie synopsis i knew that it would have that ambiguous ending, but the fact that it managed to pass that to my mom who usually cant follow movies at all is just amazing
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Posted 10 August 2010 - 10:01 AM
Original post by YudhisthiraQuote:
Original post by blueEbolaQuote:
Original post by Yudhisthira
I saw it, it's a good movie. I think it has been a bit over-hyped in my opinion, it is worth a watch. It's one of those films that you'd want to watch twice as the storyline gets somewhat complex (didn't help that I had a late night before!). The ending implied there will be more movies to come. Overall a really unique storyline which is well executed.
The ending may seem to imply that, but I don't think it will happen. I've read that he's not very big on sequels -- he's only done it for the Batman series because, well, it's Batman.
I always thought if a movie does well enough at the box office they will make a sequel whether the original director/cast are on board or not, just from a purely financial perspective. Especially if the storyline lends itself to one.
Leonardo DiCaprio doesn't do sequels (see imdb), so they will have to bring in a totally new cast if they wanted to do it again.
But, I see plenty avenues for revenge plots here. It shouldn't be hard to make another.
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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:01 PM
Original post by noe
I can't believe so much people here loved that movie that much. For me it was The Thirteenth Floor / The Matrix poorly combined. Not to mention that Di Caprio just did almost same thing in Shutter Island few months back and better. By all means I am not trying to troll here and I assume I will be bashed ;) but really, didn't you feel while watching it that you've already seen it all? Why is so special about that movie? And please don't reply that I probably didn't understand it ;)
Um...short answer. Inception a movie that captured our attention and fueled our imagination. Everything else is debatable and subjectable. Just as it is for any movie for anyone.
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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:08 PM
Original post by benryvesQuote:I tend to find that a good score works with the picture, but this score makes use of a distracting foghorn blast that I've seen likened to the vuvuzela at the World Cup. The trailer may give you a good idea of what it's like.
Original post by cowsarenotevil
I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't know how the music is, but I'm worried that Hans Zimmer is doing more and more "experimental" music that seems to lack emotion (not to mention other things like melody and harmony). Is this the same way?
No, a movie trailer's music does not necessarily give you any idea what the movie score is like. The trailer music doesn't even have
to come from the movie itself! I've seen trailer music ripped from 5 different pieces before, all edited seamlessly together.
As for Inception, you won't find this trailer music anywhere in the score. There's like 3 different trailers, and the last one wasn't
even created by Hans Zimmer. Music from trailer #3 is called "Mind Heist" by Zack Hemsey.