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console dev: Can someone explain?


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#1 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 03:15 AM

I have playstation, and I was wondering, how would I make my own playstation games? Would I write it in C++ like a computer game, this tpic ha confused me for the past year, so i was wondering if someone could explain how it works(developing games for PSX). "I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden

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#2 mlambert   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 562

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 06:23 AM

Hello!


It''s pretty much the same, you get the libs and work with them (or around them in a lot of cases). You do need special dev kits to work with these though (unless you go the much documented hacker route, of course ;-) ), these basically allow your PC to communicate with the console, gives you an emulator (in the form of a PC card) and allows a proper debugging enviroment.


Other than this, it''s easier in some respects to PC, because you don''t have to accomodate every possible architecture, however the restraints arguably take a much refined programming knowledge to work with (in the sense that you have to work harder to get things done).....


The industry as a whole looks to console gaming to the future (much to my dismay), so it''s a very worthwhile field to get in to.



Hope this answers your q!





Marc Lambert

marc@darkhex.com

#3 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 06:27 AM

Yeah. I figured that, but I mean, where are the Developer Kits and Tutorials, ya know? I want to make my own playstation games. That would be pretty cool. I can see how the controls would differ, but is the code alot different? Can I download the Developer Kits, and take some tutorials/read a book on how to do it???

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden

#4 taybrin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 06:32 AM

Actually, Sony came out with this thing called the Net Yaroze I think, which was a playstation that you could develop your own games on. It carried a hefty price tag, but no where near a full blown development kit. I do not know if it was ever released in the states, but I think it came out in Japan. Check out ebay or something if you are really interested.

Stein

#5 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 06:36 AM

I have to pay to develop games? Thats rediculous! Can''t I just download a dev kit????

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden

#6 taybrin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 06:44 AM

No you can''t just download a dev kit. Now I know there is someone reading this that can answer it better than I but a dev kit is a premium piece of hardware. You pretty much use it to emulate how the actual playstation would play your game. I think they also come with debugging tools and the api made by (in your case sony). Example: Many of the XBox developers I think just got their final devkits (i could be wrong about this) but for awhile they were working with unfinished devkits. So no you can''t just download them. Here is a photo of some I dug up on flipcode.com, another very good game programming site

http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=08-22-2001&forum=iotd&id=-1

There''s your devkits . . .

Stein

#7 bazee   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 07:11 AM

If you have a PS2, you can play around with a Basic language that comes on a demo disc. It''s free and super simple to use but also very limited. I''ve had a go and made a few games like pong and spinning 3D shapes but because I can''t connect the PS2 to my PC (yet) I can''t do things like use bitmaps, wave files etc. All the code is saved onto ordinary memory cards. It''s a little bit of fun and you''d never be able to make a decent game on it.

#8 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 07:15 AM

How much do these development kits cost? and where can I learn how to use them if i do get one?????

#9 taybrin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 07:23 AM

its definitely in the thousands of dollars for all the new consoles. Maybe some dev houses sell there unused and older playstation dev kits online, maybe sony takes them back, i don''t know. I''m sure someone on these boards knows more about this.

Anyone??



#10 CheeseGrater   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 08:38 AM

Reselling Developer Kits is generally against the contracts that had to be signed to get one in the first place.

If you want try out console development for low investment (about $120 or so) then get a dreamcast and write stuff on it. It's pretty well-understood by hobbyist developers, and there is a freeware 3D acceleration library for you to use on it. Then you'll finally be able to add the words 'console development experience' to your resume.

Head on over to http://www.boob.co.uk/ to get started on development.

You'll also need a DC coder's cable if you don't have a broadband adaptor. You can order a cable from http://www.lik-sang.com

Happy console hacking!

Edited by - cheesegrater on August 31, 2001 3:43:00 PM

#11 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 09:58 AM

Ive decided not to bother with console development until I have a well paying job. I hate dreamcast, and all other systems except PSX, PS2, and SNES(lol)(and maybe gameboy advance) So those would be the only systems I would develop for. I just wanted to make some games for myself, i didnt think I would have to pay to become a developer. lol. Oh well.

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden

#12 taybrin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 10:42 AM

Why do you hate dreamcast . . .????

#13 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 10:48 AM

I dont like dreamcasts games. They are all wild or dumb. I like clam RPG type games. I guess theres some OK games but its not worth paying 99 dollars for dreamcast and 40 for games.

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden

#14 taybrin   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 11:08 AM

So its better paying 300$ for a system and 50$ for a game even when the systems first two really stellar games just came out (Madden 2002 and Gran Turismo 3) or do you not like dreamcast because Square doesn''t make games for it.

I don''t want to start a war here, but at 79$ now, and around 20-40$ a game, the dreamcast is a great system. Roleplaying games, how about Skies of Arcadia or Grandia II, they may not have all of the twists and turns of your FInal Fantasy series but they push the envelope of innovation, something Final Fantasy has not done since I think seven. You would do yourself a favor to check out Grandia 2''s turnbased/realtime fighting system . . . In my opinion it puts Final Fantasy''s to shame . . .

just my two cents . . .



#15 mlambert   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 562

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 11:10 AM

Dreamcast (Sega), like Nintendo games are the best and most varied games created. There are only two other development houses, Square and Raresoft, who can command as much respect as these two. Zelda and the early FF games set the RPG scene up.

Also, if you thought you could develop for consoles for free, think again. Unless you go the hacker route (which you can do to code with a standard psx, but won''t get very far career-wise), you need to shell out big money.


To get a decent job in this industry, you really need to understand and respect every game concept imaginable, you can''t come out and say that you hate the Dreamcast, because most of the games are wild or dumb. You need to beable to understand those games and explain why.....without this, you cannot expect to be a good game developer and most importantly, no-one else will expect you to be either....


Take this advice from someone who not only works in the industry, but spent 5 years studying and trying to understand the whole industry.






Marc Lambert

marc@darkhex.com

#16 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 11:20 AM

hehe. I dont like varied games. I like RPG''s, Real time strategy, MMORPG''s, ect. I don''t like PS2 very much either. When it comes down to facts I dont like console as much as PC games, but I thought it would be fun to make my games into playstation games for just me and my friends. I guess not I never did like sega games, except when I was really young and played sonic pinball , lol. I like playstation games, but I do like dream casts fighting games if thats good enough for you guys.

Thanks for your help.

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden

#17 TookH   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 31 August 2001 - 11:30 AM

I''m curious. Supposing your average Joe could scrape together the cash for a dev kit, would Sony/Microsoft/whoever sell him one? Or do they only sell them to game companies?

#18 mlambert   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 562

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 03:55 AM

Drizzt, I don''t think there is anything wrong at all with only liking certain types of games, I''d imagine there are quite a few people that are the same.

I, on the other hand, like virtually every type of game - in that I can always find good points about every game....which is probably why I have every console released mainstream (except the PS2, which I will eventually have...when it''s worth it!)

Unfortunately though, to get into this industry is hard enough - let alone working on something you really want to. I''m fortunate enough to be doing this, but that''s because (as I said) I like most genres...


TookH, the only way you''ll get a dev kit is to check out E-Bay and various other selling sites for a NetYaroze system. Sony will sell you a PSone license/dev kit (or even a PS2), but you''ll need a publisher backing or a very strong gameplan to apply.






Marc Lambert

marc@darkhex.com

#19 TookH   Members   -  Reputation: 122

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 08:00 AM

Nah, I don''t want a dev kit... unless I could get an old SNES one. That would be cool.

So which console is your all-time favorite?

#20 Drizzt DoUrden   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 01 September 2001 - 08:19 AM

SNES and Playstation are my two favorite. Sega Saturn had a cool soccer game, and then there was the virtual thing, err, it was like binoculars, and it was red, it had mario tennis, which I think that was the most fun game ever made(untill FF7, Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, and CTR ). Also, I don like N64 but the Zelda games are decent. Dream Cast is one of my least favorite systems, but I like the fighting games(PS2 is better though ) And PS2 is the best but its NOT worth the money. I would rather stick with my SNES :| I guess XBox may be something, but I never played it(and I dont know much about it, so I dont evev know if its out yet) Plus Bill Gates and microsoft suck, so I probably wouldnt buy it. Game Cube, I heard of, I dont know about it any more because it hasnt been mentioned lately. If it came out priced at like 150 I would buy it, as long as it had good games. The system is all about the games. SNES''s Zelda was AWSOME, DBZ Legend of the Super Saiyin(or whateverm it was in japanese so I barely under stood it, lol, but the game was pretty well made)and basically all of the other games for it were good.

I wouldnt mind developing for SNES but how would I get my game into a cartidge A CD, I can just use my burner. Not to mention, SNES can''t handle 3D games, so I don''t know if I would be able to develop for it(using OpenGL, I am still figuring out 2D,and learning 3D)

My least favorite of all time had to be Sega Genisis, because the games were horrible. If it wasn''t for Knuckles, NOT SONIC!!!, I probably would never play it. I woudlnt buy it for the 15 bucks its worth

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden




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