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Are my goals realistic?


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#1 neo_nille   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:10 PM

Let me first say that i can´t do any kind of programming...at all.
I can´t draw and i can´t do any advanced 3d-models.
Basically i don´t have any kind of knowledge about making games at all.

I have however a dream since very long ago to make my very own "Resident Evil"-like game. Like the first game, with the same cheesy graphic and simple animations and pre-rendered backgrounds.

I mean this game is like 15 years old, so how hard could it be?
Or is it still very hard an expensive to do??

So i have some questions:

1. Do you think it´s possible to do this alone and in some realistic time-frame?

2. What software do you recommend me to use to do the pre-rendered backgrounds and animations? I have been aware of Blender but don´t know if its any good.
(or easy to learn for that matter)

3. The programming is the hardest thing for me. I´m aware that C++ is the best but since im NOT doing a new Call of duty or anything...is it really necessary? Arent there any simpler, easier, faster to learn language? So far i have found:
*DarkBASIC (Basic)
*3d Gamestudio (?)
*XNA (C#)

Thoughts?

I´m NOT looking to become a advance programmer or anything. I DON`T wanna work with this...it´s just for fun!!

Im just here to look for some advice and help cuz im really lost!!!!!!

Sponsor:

#2 marcgfx   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:27 PM

I dare say the programming hat not really become much easier. So no it is not realistic in C++, if you don't want to at least be an advanced programmer.

maybe you can use some gamestudio type of stuff, nothing i have tried though.

do you really think you are going to have fun? not being able to do any of the required task, sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you. if you like the challenge go for it, but maybe try just making a model first? try the things you are most likely going to enjoy and get done, you might manage to get some help from other people then and form a team.
-----------take part in the AI challenge on http://cyberlympics.com

#3 neo_nille   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:32 PM

Quote:
Original post by marcgfx
I dare say the programming hat not really become much easier. So no it is not realistic in C++, if you don't want to at least be an advanced programmer.

maybe you can use some gamestudio type of stuff, nothing i have tried though.

do you really think you are going to have fun? not being able to do any of the required task, sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you. if you like the challenge go for it, but maybe try just making a model first? try the things you are most likely going to enjoy and get done, you might manage to get some help from other people then and form a team.


I have always loved making my own stuff.
I don´t know how many games i did in The games factory, or levels in Warcraft 3.

The boring and hard stuff are of course all the learning. But once i got it and really starting to get some results. It´s worth it!!


#4 nobodynews   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1760

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:38 PM

Quote:
Original post by neo_nille
1. Do you think it´s possible to do this alone and in some realistic time-frame?
There are certainly people that can do this kind of thing alone but who can say whether you can... until you try?

Quote:
2. What software do you recommend me to use to do the pre-rendered backgrounds and animations? I have been aware of Blender but don´t know if its any good.
(or easy to learn for that matter)
The only reason pre-rendered backgrounds were used was because the processing power didn't exist to generate good-looking levels real-time. There was Quake released about the same time but it probably couldn't handle the type of level-design used for Resident Evil. Nowadays most any computer on the market can render a game of Quake within Quake itself so your game character can play Quake while you play Quake.

No, at this point it will actually be easier to just do everything pure 3D than faking it by doing half-2D and half-3D. You still need to do 3D in both cases, right? You still have to design 3D environments, right?

As for modeling software like Blender, that isn't an area I can help with, sorry.

Quote:
3. The programming is the hardest thing for me. I´m aware that C++ is the best but since im NOT doing a new Call of duty or anything...is it really necessary? Arent there any simpler, easier, faster to learn language?
Yes. Just about every language is simpler, easier, and faster to learn compared to C++. And most of the time they won't even be slower that you would ever notice except in some cases. The indie hit Minecraft is written in Java for cryin' out loud, didn't stop Notch any.

Quote:
So far i have found:
*DarkBASIC
*3d Gamestudio
*XNA
XNA requires you know at least some C# which, while very loosely modeled after C++, is still radically different and certainly much easier to learn. I haven't used DarkBASIC or 3d gamestudio.

Have you considered taking an existing game and 'modding' it? It will generally will require learning far less programming than most alternatives. There are also things like Unity3D which will take care of most of the complex parts of programming and might get you started quicker to your goal.

#5 Kayzaks   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:40 PM

Answering your questions:

1. Depends on what you call a realistic time-frame. But generally yes, Programming wise, games like Resident Evil and Final Fantasy 7-9 with a fixed Camera and mostly 2D Environment aren't all to difficult. However they rely heavily on Art and Story telling, so you better be ready for that ;)

2. Blender is a good choice. Or, you could use other games like Half Life (Gery's mod comes to mind) and simply Screenshot certain scenes. I think that would get you started rather quick.

3. DarkBASIC and XNA+C# are great choices. Especially XNA, there are quite impressive 2.5D projects out there with minimal code behind them.
Like Nobody said, perhaps take a look at Unity 3D.


In my opinion, the biggest problem you will face is the 3D Modelling of the Characters, especially the Animation. As this is going to be a 3rd Person game, the Player will focus alot on your Character.

#6 daveodonoghue   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 114

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:59 PM

1) No such thing as a realistic timeframe when it comes to passion. Just keep doing it until it's done.

2) Since you have no experience I'd highly recommend not going into the deep end, you'll lose interest quick smart. I started my programming days making fake viruses with Visual Basic 5 to scare my father then moved onto a cool program called Adventure Game Studio.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/

It'll let you make a 2D adventure game which should suit your horror theme and means you don't have to worry about 3D yet.

3) Learning the programming language is easy but learning how to use it to do what you want is the hard part.

Using simple game making tools allows you to slowly introduce yourself to the process of making games which will prepare you for when you start using more advanced tools.


Forgot to say: Good luck!

#7 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8642

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:26 PM

Hello Nille, you wrote:
Quote:
a. I mean this game is like 15 years old, so how hard could it be?
b. Or is it still very hard an expensive to do??
1. Do you think it´s possible to do this alone and in some realistic time-frame?
2. What software do you recommend me to use to do the pre-rendered backgrounds and animations? I have been aware of Blender but don´t know if its any good.
(or easy to learn for that matter)
3. The programming is the hardest thing for me. I´m aware that C++ is the best but since im NOT doing a new Call of duty or anything...is it really necessary? Arent there any simpler, easier, faster to learn language?
4. I´m NOT looking to become a advance programmer or anything. I DON`T wanna work with this...it´s just for fun!!


a. Very. Everything will be hard (for you).
b. Everything is expensive. But the cost varies depending on how you want to do it. If you learn how to do everything yourself, then it'll only cost what you spend to learn how to do it -- but it'll take a very long time.
1. Anything is possible.
1. What is a "realistic time-frame" to you? It should take you a long time if you're going to learn how to do it all yourself -- figure four years for the learning, then at least one year to execute.
2. Nothing is easy to learn. You shouldn't ask how easy it is to learn.
3. No, it's not "really necessary." You can use any language you want.
3. Yes, there are. But you shouldn't be asking how hard or what's easier. You should focus on learning on what it is you need to learn.
4. I don't understand what you're saying. You don't wanna "work with this"? It's going to be a lot of work. That doesn't mean it won't also be fun.

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#8 leiavoia   Members   -  Reputation: 960

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 05:45 PM

Quote:
Let me first say that i can´t do any kind of programming...at all.

If that sentence isn't followed by the word "yet," then you're doomed.

Quote:
I can´t draw and i can´t do any advanced 3d-models.
Basically i don´t have any kind of knowledge about making games at all.

I sure hope you're motivated then!

Quote:
I mean this game is like 15 years old, so how hard could it be?

Imagine chewing on rocks. It's hard like that. Seriously. If you have no skills at present, then it's more like chewing on many rocks.

Quote:
Do you think it´s possible to do this alone and in some realistic time-frame?

Inside the decade, yes. I'm assuming you are pretty young, so the good news is you've still got plenty of time.

Quote:
What software do you recommend me to use to do the pre-rendered backgrounds and animations?

See what nobodynews said about going full 3D.

Quote:
The programming is the hardest thing for me. I´m aware that C++ is the best but since im NOT doing a new Call of duty or anything...is it really necessary?

C++ is NOT the best. C++ is also like chewing rocks. Some people like rocks. I don't. I would recommend anything else for a 100% beginner.


Quote:
I´m NOT looking to become a advance programmer or anything.

You won't make it too far then. Embrace the challenge!

Quote:
I DON`T wanna work with this...it´s just for fun!!

The work IS the fun. If you don't agree, game programming is probably not for you.

Bottom line: Dreams won't get you very far in game development. You have to be really, really committed to learning and working hard... for years. I just finished my first game this last week. It's a simple puzzle game. The base code it uses took seven years to cook up. The actual game portion of it only took about ~3 months, but i've also got a decade's worth of programming experience to work with now.

But don't think i'm trying to scare you off either. Dive right in and have fun! Just don't get upset if you find out it's really, really, really, stinking hard!



#9 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1693

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 06:42 PM

To make a game is very hard and rewarding. You will need to learn math and programming.

Read the 'Beginning C++ Game Programming' by Michael Dawson or google cplusplus to find a free tutorial in C++(other languages would be fine too).

I advice you to make sure that you posses the highest skill level in math from high school(or better yet CS or math knowledge from a college or university), as that will be your first floor in the building(so the building will not crash later on when adding more floors).

Conclusion: No easy road to sharpen your battle axe, but the result will be amazing if you keep on being persistent ;o)

You should spend a lot of time reading the beginners section in here as that will help you out(the information on this website is like a huge treasure chest and amazing :o) ).

Happy new year(to all who read this)!

Edit: some minor spelling mistakes

#10 00chris00   Members   -  Reputation: 144

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 07:06 PM

There are a lot of people who believe they can make a second World of Warcraft without any game developing experience. At least you don't have such difficult goals and you know that making a game is not easy. So yes, under those circumstances I believe that you can actually make your game - but decide whether you really want to spend all that time to archieve your goal. Don't expect to even start making your game in the next month, even if you study 5 hours a day. You'll need to write simpler programs and even games first.

I'd recommend that you download a few games here from gamedev (features > GD Showcase) to get a basic understanding of what's possible and what's not.

#11 Metz   Members   -  Reputation: 201

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:24 PM

Quote:
Original post by leiavoia
C++ is NOT the best. C++ is also like chewing rocks. Some people like rocks. I don't. I would recommend anything else for a 100% beginner.!

You would recommend even Assembly before C++? ;D

#12 Basse85   Members   -  Reputation: 159

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 02:38 AM

Hello neo nille, welcome to GD!
I would highly recomend you to start with the design of your game. Start by writing down your basic idea on one to two pages. Basic story and gamplay mechanics.
And then start writing your GDD (google game design document) while you are learning the other more heavy parts like programming. It will keep you motivated.
In the end, you will have a big pile of papers with the whole game, all characters, story, back story, mini games, concept art, story boards, enemies, bosses, drawings of levels ect..
This is a very important part of making games.
Even if it takes you a couple of years to write the gdd, it will save you alot of time in the end.

On the technical side I would personaly recomend C# and XNA. Thats because I love the work and learning that goes into making a game. If all that frights you I would go for some free engine but I dont have any peronal experience of them yet so cant help you with that.

One thing that you should have in mind, dont always look for the easiest and fastet way of achieving your goals. Do it right or dont do it at all.

Best of luck to you and I realy hope your motivation keeps you through the whole project!

[Edited by - Basse85 on January 5, 2011 8:38:16 AM]

#13 Enders   Members   -  Reputation: 128

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:44 AM

Lol, i had the same dream too! I wanted to make a zombie game back in the day :D

You want to know my first game designing experience was...

RPG maker 95.

That was some sure damn cool software back in the day. It made me realize the amount of work needed to put into a game. From sprite making, level design, world building, event creature, and story flow. Nothing comes free, everything must be worked at.

Things really got interesting with RPG Maker 2000. With the availability of variables. I could create some interesting events.

I also had a lot of fun with the RPG Maker for the playstation. It was simple, but effective. No variables though. :(

I haven't tried any of the new RPG Makers (the 3d ones look cool though), because by the time i was finished with RPGM2K I discovered Qbasic and Visual Basic and got into making my own games.

Now i am working on another project for Android Devices. It is going to be in 3D so I am using Blender to make my models and levels. It is my first 3D game, so hope it works out.

Good luck in your endeavors. :)

#14 Perlohmann   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 09:55 AM

I do not know the title your refering to, but if your not making anything advanced I would recomend Game Maker 8 (http://www.yoyogames.com/make) last I checked it was free.

If you want to make 3D games and have the curage to learn some programming Unity is the way to go (http://www.unity3d.com/) which is also free.

Both programs are pretty good in their free version but can be upgraded to a "pro" version with more functionallity (which I dont think you will need anyways)

EDIT: Game maker uses LUA and Unity uses javascript (ish) or C# or Boo.

//perlohmann

#15 neo_nille   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 11:38 AM

Thx for all your answers!
I will absolutely check out Unity!!

Quote:
Original post by Perlohmann
I do not know the title your refering to, but if your not making anything advanced I would recomend Game Maker 8 (http://www.yoyogames.com/make) last I checked it was free.

If you want to make 3D games and have the curage to learn some programming Unity is the way to go (http://www.unity3d.com/) which is also free.

Both programs are pretty good in their free version but can be upgraded to a "pro" version with more functionallity (which I dont think you will need anyways)

EDIT: Game maker uses LUA and Unity uses javascript (ish) or C# or Boo.

//perlohmann


You never heard of Resident Evil???




#16 phresnel   Members   -  Reputation: 949

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:33 PM

Quote:
Original post by Dwarf King
To make a game is very hard and rewarding. You will need to learn math and programming.


That's too general. Make a nibbles/snake clone. It is neither hard (except to total beginners), nor rewarding. And you don't have to learn math, just basic programming (arrays, addition/subtraction of integers, console output).



#17 Perlohmann   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 12:13 AM

Quote:
Original post by neo_nille
You never heard of Resident Evil???


Yes Ive heard of Resident Evil =) but I have not played it before or seen it been played (well I might have but I cant remember) so I didnt know if it was a 3D game or a 2D game (unity is not the best engine to make a 2D game in) but since it is 3D then Unity is the way to go imo.

//perlohmann

#18 Zahlman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1682

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:22 AM

Quote:
Original post by Metallon
Quote:
Original post by leiavoia
C++ is NOT the best. C++ is also like chewing rocks. Some people like rocks. I don't. I would recommend anything else for a 100% beginner.!

You would recommend even Assembly before C++? ;D


At least with assembly the beginner would actually learn something about how the computer really works, instead of just thinking he's learning such a thing. It would also not be as easy to get stuck thinking "I've almost got the hang of this" and continuing to torture oneself with it. It would also mean defining your own what-would-otherwise-be undefined behaviour.

;)

#19 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9584

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:00 AM

Quote:
Original post by Zahlman
At least with assembly the beginner would actually learn something about how the computer really works
<nitpick>
I am not so sure about that. Assembly is not particularly less abstracted from the hardware than C++ is, at least in this day and age.

You would learn the implementation of basic flow control structures (if, while, switch, etc), which are part of compiler development, and nice enough to know (but ultimately fairly irrelevant). As far as the hardware goes, however, you would learn some details about 1980's CPU design (when the ISA was designed), and not a lot else. You certainly wouldn't learn anything about pipelining, caches, data dependencies, etc. - the bread and butter of how modern hardware functions.
</nitpick>

#20 Dr. Hugo Strangelovecraft   Members   -  Reputation: 100

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 04:36 PM

Before getting into details I suggest you check 2 development tools out there, they're not intended for action games but instead for point & click adventure games which have a lot of similar elements with the old Resident Evil games (You could say RE is an adventure game with some shooting element added).

First one is the Adventure Game Studio. This one is only meant for 2D old Lucas Arts adventure style games but it's easier to learn and use in my opinion and you can script even action elements.
The second one is the Wintermute Engine. With this one you can create 2D and what is called 2.5D (what the original RE games are) graphical adventure, however again this one is not meant for action games so the shooting element and movement with keys would need to be scripted or added as a module (check the forums of both to see if someone has kindly shared a module or a plug-in for shooting or something like that).

There are engines similar to Wintermute such as DagePort but I don't know much about them. Maybe your best bet would be to learn one of them and either join a team or create a demo and then ask for help with some graphics or some resources you need.




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