80 replies to this topic

[jtagge75]

When I got my first Mac I wasn't to crazy about OSX but now I'd rather use a Mac then Windows. I guess that must mean Win7 sucks donkey balls.

So you want to stick with what is familiar and think what is different sucks, how is that different from most people? How many times did your wife say Linux sucked and she wanted to go back to Windows when you first make the change? Considering how much hand holding that WIndows does for the average user I'm going to say more then once.

My dad still has XP, after using Win7 for a year, that does suck donkey balls. You couldn't pay me money to switch back to XP.

[Don Carnage]

Wow, when i woke up this morning i only expected like one or two posts. Maybe something like: I like windows, or i like ubuntu too. Not someone who says that my wife and i are dumb-asses and my wife is going to dumb my ass for some stupid reason.

So SORRY for liking my wife's preference of operating systems. And SORRY you can't accept other's people choices even if they are in this 90% over generalized range you speak of.

I would think you were half intelligent if you did a dual install and played your games on windows but if you honestly think using wine makes more sense than windows for video games then I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon and tell you that your logic fails hard...

Ahh give him a break. He's obviously not a technical person...buying a gaming computer from walmart and all. =D

Give yourself a break. You're obviously out of the loop. Who even said he was buying a gaming computer? His wife has been playing restau rant and he's running dos games with wine.

When I got my first Mac I wasn't to crazy about OSX but now I'd rather use a Mac then Windows. I guess that must mean Win7 sucks donkey balls.

So you want to stick with what is familiar and think what is different sucks, how is that different from most people? How many times did your wife say Linux sucked and she wanted to go back to Windows when you first make the change? Considering how much hand holding that WIndows does for the average user I'm going to say more then once.

My dad still has XP, after using Win7 for a year, that does suck donkey balls. You couldn't pay me money to switch back to XP.

Use a Mac?

That's priceless!

Because Macs suck donkey balls!

[AndrewBC]

Funny you should mention python

Disregarding the irony of a developer depending on Python 2.x complaining about distros are shipping old versions, why not simply put Python 2.6 as a dependency and explicitly specify #!/usr/bin/python2.6 rather than #!/usr/bin/python as the first line of any executable script?

(Also, complaining about incompatible "broken" Python versions when your application is written in Ruby, a language with no official specification, seems... odd.)

Actually, most python devs who have 3rd party dependencies are stuck with 2.7 for the near future. Only recently has it been a good time for the big frameworks and other modules that many people use to port to 3.x because the moratorium on new features in 3.x branch resulting in a stable API to target, as well as bugfix only for 2.7. So it really isn't unusual.

Furthermore, specifying a specific python version in the shebang is really quite crude, especially since he supports multiple python versions. There's no way to exclude particular versions in the shebang. There's no guarantee people have that version, so you're artificially limiting the usefulness of your code, which is just plain retarded.


And even further, you're doing it wrong. You're not guaranteed to find a python executable at /usr/bin/ so we've been forced to use #!/usr/bin/env python for a while now, because *nix is a clusterfuck with regard to where things might actually be.

He could easily however, do something like this:

import sys
if sys.version_info.major == 2 and sys.version_info.minor < 6:
	print "Oh noes!"
	exit()

[speciesUnknown]

So the wife and I got a new computer last weekend. It has been 5 years since we got a new one, so the specs seemed off the charts compared to the one we had. We had windows installed on the old one before the hardware died.

So we bring this computer home. I boot it up, its got ubuntu. I am thinking to myself, she used ubuntu before and liked it. Always said she needed ubuntu to print out coupons or whatever.

She played resturant city for a few days and commented on how much the game plays. I never really got a go on the ubuntu as I didn't want to go through with tracking down and installing drivers and all the other third party plugins and stuff.

Then one day. Danny (my wife) says to me.

"Ahh I hate ubuntu. I have to do too much crap just to do something. Install windows."

She was right too. I also hated gnome, with it being so ugly. The way I have to compile the kernel just to get my wifi to work. The confusing command line utils that takes forever to find documentation for. Oh and let's not forget all of the unnecessary bloat that come with the default ubuntu installation. I was missing the simple, it just works, windows.

And now that win 7 is up and running. My wife feels at home. And it is running way better then our last computer. I am in heaven

Now to play "back to the future" without having to run directx and wine.

[Aardvajk]

So the wife and I got a new cardboard box last weekend. It has been 5 years since we got a new one, so the specs seemed off the charts compared to the one we had. We had a cat in the old one before the cat died.

So we bring this box home. I open it up, its got a computer in it. I am thinking to myself, she used a computer before and liked it. Always said she needed a computer to print out coupons or whatever.

She played resturant city for a few days and commented on how much the game plays better than a cat. I never really got a go on the computer as I didn't want to go through with pressing buttons on the keyboard and looking at the screen and crap.

Then one day. Danny (my wife) says to me.

"Ahh I hate computers. I have to press buttons and look at the screen just to do something. Get a cat."

She was right too. I also hated computers, the way they didn't eat the food you put down for them in the kitchen, the way they were really uncomfortable on your lap, the way they wouldn't chase bits of string. I was missing the simple, they just work, cats.

And now that the cat is up and running. My wife feels at home. And it is running way better then our last computer. I am in heaven

Now to play "chase the string" without having to press buttons or get off the sofa.

PS: Mike P, I have nothing but respect for you as a community member and a developer, but that post was kind of harsh man.

[valderman]

Furthermore, specifying a specific python version in the shebang is really quite crude, especially since he supports multiple python versions. There's no way to exclude particular versions in the shebang.

There's no guarantee people have that version, so you're artificially limiting the usefulness of your code, which is just plain retarded.

In fact, there is such a guarantee. I don't know how they do it in RPM land, but on Debian with derivatives all you need to do if you want a particular Python version is to have your package depend on it - 2.4, 2.6 and 3.1 are all in the official repos.
Apparently Python 2.6 features were so crucial he had to get rid of Python if he couldn't have them, so I don't see what's retarded about making that dependency official.

And even further, you're doing it wrong. You're not guaranteed to find a python executable at /usr/bin/ so we've been forced to use #!/usr/bin/env python for a while now, because *nix is a clusterfuck with regard to where things might actually be.

Are there any actual distros that put Python anywhere but /usr/bin?

He could easily however, do something like this:

import sys
if sys.version_info.major == 2 and sys.version_info.minor < 6:
	print "Oh noes!"
	exit()

Well, my main point wasn't "shebang line saves the day" but "state your dependencies properly and perhaps add a version check, and you've solved the problem."

[SteveDeFacto]

So the wife and I got a new mexican last weekend. It has been 5 years since we got a new one, so the specs seemed off the charts compared to the one we had. We had mayonnaise in the old one before she died.

So we bring this mexican home. I boot her up, its got a penis. I am thinking to myself, she used penis before and liked it...

Err maybe I should have chose different words...

[AndrewBC]

With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

[Alpha_ProgDes]

Haven't you learned anything? On the Internet, all opinions are facts.

[valderman]

With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

I don't know what world you live in, but where I live, responding to someone sharing an anecdote and a couple of reasons why they prefer a certain operating system over another with "good thing your wife is as dumb as you are, or she'd leave you in a heartbeat" would usually earn you a broken nose, and with good reason.

But then again, the lounge is just 4chan plus "like"-buttons after all, so I guess being the Internet tough guy is the cool thing to do, eh?

[Aardvajk]

With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

So you think it is valid to start throwing mud at the integrity of the relationship of a married couple due to a preference over operating systems?

We're not talking about the internet, we are talking about GDNet (albeit the lounge) and I'd hope most of us would expect better. But perhaps that is just me being an idealist or something.

I'm quite sure that "honest commentary that was implicitly asked for and was delivered" did not include making slights about the OP's relationship with his wife. Are you married, AndrewBC?

[speciesUnknown]

With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

So you think it is valid to start throwing mud at the integrity of the relationship of a married couple due to a preference over operating systems?

We're not talking about the internet, we are talking about GDNet (albeit the lounge) and I'd hope most of us would expect better. But perhaps that is just me being an idealist or something.

I'm quite sure that "honest commentary that was implicitly asked for and was delivered" did not include making slights about the OP's relationship with his wife. Are you married, AndrewBC?

There's really no reason to be so upset, if people are being unhelpful or unfriendly, you can always rate down those posts. This community can police itself. Just imagine if one could only be voted up... say goodbye to the need to be polite and not engage in personal attacks.

[Aardvajk]

There's really no reason to be so upset, if people are being unhelpful or unfriendly, you can always rate down those posts. This community can police itself. Just imagine if one could only be voted up... say goodbye to the need to be polite and not engage in personal attacks.

Well, irony understood. In the absence of rate down, I guess we just have to speak up when things are unfair/clearly wrong/trolling and rely on public debate rather than a silly little number at the bottom of our posts.

My biggest problem with the site overhaul is that lounge posts now show up in the Community list. Nobodies fault but my own for getting dragged in, but I never even used to see this rubbish on the old site.

[SteveDeFacto]

Personally I think trolls and haters are actually good for the internet and internet communities. They cause new and childish people on the internet to emotionally mature and accept criticism without bating an eye. I've had people berate me and make a fool of me for minor mistakes. I honestly think it has made me a better person because it helped me see that other's opinions of me are just that opinions. I think comments like the one Mike made are nothing more than constructive criticism and I see nothing wrong with what he said even though it may have been a bit personal but that's something everyone on the internet should learn to take with a grain of salt.

[Aardvajk]

Personally I think trolls and haters are actually good for the internet and internet communities. They cause new and childish people on the internet to emotionally mature and accept criticism without bating an eye. I've had people berate me and make a fool of me for minor mistakes. I honestly think it has made me a better person because it helped me see that other's opinions of me are just that opinions. I think comments like the one Mike made are nothing more than constructive criticism and I see nothing wrong with what he said even though it may have been a bit personal but that's something everyone on the internet should learn to take with a grain of salt.

I agree with most of that. I've also been bashed to hell and back and it has certainly made me a lot more considerate about what I post.

However, I equally reserve the right, since this is a public forum, to call out something that I think is unreasonable. I was doing exactly this in Mike's journal in his favour not more than a few weeks ago.

From my point of view, the presence or absence of a rating system is completely irrelevant in this. If you want to act like a kid, there are plenty of other sites that will appreciate it. I'd rather GDNet stayed mature personally and I'd say the same whether there was a rate-down button or not.

[AndrewBC]

I don't know what world you live in, but where I live, responding to someone sharing an anecdote and a couple of reasons why they prefer a certain operating system over another with "good thing your wife is as dumb as you are, or she'd leave you in a heartbeat" would usually earn you a broken nose, and with good reason.

But then again, the lounge is just 4chan plus "like"-buttons after all, so I guess being the Internet tough guy is the cool thing to do, eh?

There are no broken noses on the internet. Your white knightery is amusing.

So you think it is valid to start throwing mud at the integrity of the relationship of a married couple due to a preference over operating systems?

We're not talking about the internet, we are talking about GDNet (albeit the lounge) and I'd hope most of us would expect better. But perhaps that is just me being an idealist or something.

I'm quite sure that "honest commentary that was implicitly asked for and was delivered" did not include making slights about the OP's relationship with his wife. Are you married, AndrewBC?

I'm not sure I would use the term "valid", because that terminology suggests that you and I share the same views on social behavior in all regards. We don't; No one does. When you say something in a public place, however, people could respond with anything. The very act of saying something in a public place, therefore, is an implicit invitation to commentary. Just because you're outraged on his behalf doesn't mean suddenly no one will or can't say something bad about it, or about you, or about someone's reply to you (like mine). The only tactic this particular subset of society has now to express aligned social interest or disinterest is either "omg you shutup" comments, or mods coming in and censoring people. Downvoting no longer available makes this obviously ridiculous, and thus I ridicule. Hah. Hah hah.

I'm not interested in acting like your ideals, because nothing is really sacred no matter how many people stick their heads in the sand. If you can't handle someone saying something offensive to you, feel free to plug up your ears or find a censorship dictator to coerce everyone around you.

And no, I'm not married. Feel free to make snarky comments about that.

[Aardvajk]

Just because you're outraged on his behalf doesn't mean suddenly no one will or can't say something bad about it, or about you, or about someone's reply to you (like mine). The only tactic this particular subset of society has now to express aligned social interest or disinterest is either "omg you shutup" comments, or mods coming in and censoring people. Downvoting no longer available makes this obviously ridiculous, and thus I ridicule. Hah. Hah hah.

I'm not outraged at all. I was just calmly raising an objection to a post I felt was unfair. I'm confused as to how you would consider my comment to be of the "omg you shutup" variety since I think I actually made my point more clearly than that.

You seem to have stepped in on Mike's behalf. I should make it clear that I have an enormous amount of respect for Mike both as a professional and a person and would far rather be debating this issue with him rather than you. I suspect that the debate would be far less reactionary.

I'm not interested in acting like your ideals, because nothing is really sacred no matter how many people stick their heads in the sand. If you can't handle someone saying something offensive to you, feel free to plug up your ears or find a censorship dictator to coerce everyone around you.

I'm quite happy to have offensive things said to me. I just reserve the right to riposte.

And no, I'm not married. Feel free to make snarky comments about that.

Snarky comments aren't really my style. I was just wondering whether you understood what it would feel like.

[mikeman]

With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

Oh come on. "Maybe she wouldn't bother sticking around" was an "honest commentary"? Whatever. That's trolling of the highest degree. All because he made a like-Ubunty thread?

The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.

[phantom]

The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.

Yeah, I somewhat doubt that's going to be the case...

[AndrewBC]

Just because you're outraged on his behalf doesn't mean suddenly no one will or can't say something bad about it, or about you, or about someone's reply to you (like mine). The only tactic this particular subset of society has now to express aligned social interest or disinterest is either "omg you shutup" comments, or mods coming in and censoring people. Downvoting no longer available makes this obviously ridiculous, and thus I ridicule. Hah. Hah hah.

I'm not outraged at all. I was just calmly raising an objection to a post I felt was unfair. I'm confused as to how you would consider my comment to be of the "omg you shutup" variety since I think I actually made my point more clearly than that.

You seem to have stepped in on Mike's behalf. I should make it clear that I have an enormous amount of respect for Mike both as a professional and a person and would far rather be debating this issue with him rather than you. I suspect that the debate would be far less reactionary.

I did not intend for you to read into my "omg you shutup" line as if I were saying that your posts were of that style. That was just an example to point out that there is either conversational discourse as a recourse, or the other example I mentioned. Outraged is another bit of colorful overemphasis added, you clearly care to some degree or we wouldn't be talking.

I also think that you thought I was saying stepping in on someone's behalf in a derogatory sense. I wasn't, but nice try on making me eat my own actions.

And no, I'm not married. Feel free to make snarky comments about that.

Snarky comments aren't really my style. I was just wondering whether you understood what it would feel like.

I've had much worse said about me for choices I didn't make that also had no possibility to be true. So fucking what?

With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

Oh come on. "Maybe she wouldn't bother sticking around" was an "honest commentary"? Whatever. That's trolling of the highest degree. All because he made a like-Ubunty thread?

The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.

Oh you think he's being disingenuous? I disagree, sir, I am fairly certain MikeP actually did think up his conjecture all on his own.