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Infinite tiles in finite memory...


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#1 aersixb9   Banned   -  Reputation: 57

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 11:30 PM

Minecraft does this. While not technically infinite, the game starts by spawning all the visible 'tiles' (cubes), then spawning more as the player explores and as necessary. This approach starts good, then lags without optimization.

Viewing the challenge as an abstract 2D tile-map, one could use a similar method to fill one screen worth of generated tiles. If you attempt to load and render a much larger number than this, it will be slow and run out of resources; thus at any time, if a game has an infinitely large map, only a tiny portion of it may exist at any time.

One way to model an infitely large map is as a very abstract algorithim, that can generate and destroy tiles on command, both to keep the map globally consistent (base algorithim to determine locations), and also to allow an infinitely-long (sort of) algorithim to generate any piece of the map on demand, and track player interaction through the tile layer into the algorithim layer.

Note that the abstract algorithmic layer will not be 1:1 with infinity tiles, however with clever coding this will not matter and be very abstract....for example, if a road is between two cities, and there are many carts on the road, and the player is far away, does it really matter where the carts are? The resources will move around as though they are really there, and if the player goes near them they will be generated from the algorithim in random locations, under the butterfly effect should be the same as actually having all the carts on earth there at the same time, instead of abstractly modeling trade between cities quickly and invisibly, and only generate the cities & carts from the algorithim if the player is nearby and it is visible....

And also if the tiles and algorithim layers are "close" together programmatically, those tiles would be stored and tracked exactly, with more powerful computers tracking more tiles, and with a weak computer or inaccurate algorithim/tile storage/compression, the road will not be exactly the same route between two matching cities each time the player wanders off and comes back...while still being similar with a good algo, and also obeying the butterfly effect of dirt-cart roads shifting a bit....but the artifacts can creep in there, however this style might allow the plant->animal->human food chain game with a large enough map that can exist in 'tiny' computer resources.
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#2 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31822

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 11:45 PM

Exactly right! Yes, it is such as a virtual entity of derived attachment dimensionality reaization to a capable attachment window that in which produces the ability to force attachment connections during diction to a polygonH or Holygon producing as a Psychology. Therefore infinite visual natural ability to bend a space and produce Time As Attachments as Visual As Attachments As Visual such as a Small to Big reference of H psychology to a pathed projection of sizing, but as developing attachments during a natural polygonal Area Dependent Reference, therefore producing Diction Reference of Visual Area Dependence as !!!Separation!!! EVERY TIME instead of Diction of Area Dependent Psycological Function.

The basis thereof the project revolves around acquiring along the guidelines of binary probabilities, an attachment attention state that in which continues until a quadrant producing of a thirded separation is established as a psychological producing providance hierarchy of diction. Therefore CAPABLE OBJECTIVITY POLARIZATION EVEN DURING ATTENTION. Not the false statement of producing an attachment halt of psychology, yet the occuring differences of encounter as a divided quadrant of a during a divided quadrant producing as separation, ultimately producing attachments onas vector as ability diction during natural encountervism of a modulation of programming as access andas learning during a computational process HAS to be responsive along the guideline naturalism of a dictating input or output derived as interaction; therefore the computer responds to attachment dictions also as a developing natural learning occurence producing GDI+ not -GDI+ which is HGDI natural and natural GDI+. Therefore the presented modulation is a producing attachment diction of psychology, yet only produced as presentation not providances; therefore this post is considered just an H capable not a developing ability, to produce interactive output of research and developing along the guidelines of word of mouth and forums.

Would love to recieve input and information. Respond if you are interested or if you have any questions, would like to produce responses from society, and the gaming development industry; and even more so produce the learning evolution development of teachers and such; to produce along the guidelines of the developmentable mathematical output thereof.

#3 Atomical   Members   -  Reputation: 99

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 06:02 AM

Exactly right! Yes, it is such as a virtual entity of derived attachment dimensionality reaization to a capable attachment window that in which produces the ability to force attachment connections during diction to a polygonH or Holygon producing as a Psychology. Therefore infinite visual natural ability to bend a space and produce Time As Attachments as Visual As Attachments As Visual such as a Small to Big reference of H psychology to a pathed projection of sizing, but as developing attachments during a natural polygonal Area Dependent Reference, therefore producing Diction Reference of Visual Area Dependence as !!!Separation!!! EVERY TIME instead of Diction of Area Dependent Psycological Function.

The basis thereof the project revolves around acquiring along the guidelines of binary probabilities, an attachment attention state that in which continues until a quadrant producing of a thirded separation is established as a psychological producing providance hierarchy of diction. Therefore CAPABLE OBJECTIVITY POLARIZATION EVEN DURING ATTENTION. Not the false statement of producing an attachment halt of psychology, yet the occuring differences of encounter as a divided quadrant of a during a divided quadrant producing as separation, ultimately producing attachments onas vector as ability diction during natural encountervism of a modulation of programming as access andas learning during a computational process HAS to be responsive along the guideline naturalism of a dictating input or output derived as interaction; therefore the computer responds to attachment dictions also as a developing natural learning occurence producing GDI+ not -GDI+ which is HGDI natural and natural GDI+. Therefore the presented modulation is a producing attachment diction of psychology, yet only produced as presentation not providances; therefore this post is considered just an H capable not a developing ability, to produce interactive output of research and developing along the guidelines of word of mouth and forums.

Would love to recieve input and information. Respond if you are interested or if you have any questions, would like to produce responses from society, and the gaming development industry; and even more so produce the learning evolution development of teachers and such; to produce along the guidelines of the developmentable mathematical output thereof.


what.

#4 UltimaX   Members   -  Reputation: 467

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 06:35 AM


...


what.


This


#5 lotusf1   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 06:41 AM

I think you should start by lookup octree level of detail and procedural generation.

#6 Shuun   Members   -  Reputation: 123

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Posted 16 March 2011 - 07:50 AM

First off, nothing "abstract" here. Just create some exact amount of tiles and load/unload tiles as player moves, in minecraft, tiles are handled as server anyway, so player does not need to know what is going on with tiles he cant see. And its NOT infinite tiles, i can bet my pants that there is limitation of map size. And my first bet is 4294967295^2*Max map height tiles.

#7 Trienco   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2224

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 11:30 PM

First off, nothing "abstract" here. Just create some exact amount of tiles and load/unload tiles as player moves, in minecraft, tiles are handled as server anyway, so player does not need to know what is going on with tiles he cant see. And its NOT infinite tiles, i can bet my pants that there is limitation of map size. And my first bet is 4294967295^2*Max map height tiles.


Well, with 4byte integers as chunk position and each chunk being 16x16x128 blocks... considering the compressed chunks are typically less than 4k and ignoring all item and entities.. of course when you move at 5 blocks/sec you'd spend about 250 years just walking all the way across that terrain in one direction.
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#8 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21008

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 12:41 AM

If you actually want to know how Minecraft does what it does, then just read the blog, wikipedia, or read JTippet's journal.
Otherwise, I can't tell if you (the original poster) are actually asking a question or not.
It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' rather than copy+pasting it all the time.
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#9 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31822

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 01:05 AM

Otherwise, I can't tell if you (the original poster) are actually asking a question or not.

The original poster has been banned. Going off his posting history (going off on tangents in the middle of technical discourse to discuss the different 'castes' of humans, including the 'female caste', or telling rambling anecdotes about having to climb out of fighter jet cockpits in flight to re-light the engine by hand, etc) he's also not mentally sound, in my completely non-medically trained opinion. After coming to this conclusion, I'm a bit embarrassed by my previous post in this thread, which was making fun of the fact that all his posts are rambling nonsense...:unsure:

#10 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21008

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 01:31 AM

Oops, I didn't notice he was banned, thanks. Putting in a request to make the 'banned' bold and red.
It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' rather than copy+pasting it all the time.
All glory be to the Man at the right hand... On David's throne the King will reign, and the Government will rest upon His shoulders. All the earth will see the salvation of God.
Of Stranger Flames - [indie turn-based rpg set in a para-historical French colony] | Indie RPG development journal

[Fly with me on Twitter] [Google+] [My broken website]

[Need web hosting? I personally like A Small Orange]


#11 Tachikoma   Members   -  Reputation: 552

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 07:44 AM

You know, for a moment I thought people's accounts were hijacked by spam bots, because random ramblings seem to be on the increase (from my perspective, that is).
Latest project: Sideways Racing on the iPad




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