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Poll: iPad? (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Should I get the new iPad?

  1. Yes (5 votes [26.32%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.32%

  2. No (14 votes [73.68%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 73.68%

Opinion on the new iPad?

  1. Love it! (4 votes [21.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 21.05%

  2. It's okay (10 votes [52.63%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 52.63%

  3. Hate it! (5 votes [26.32%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.32%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 d000hg   Members   -  Reputation: 691

Posted 05 April 2011 - 01:30 PM

I see tons of iPads around where I go. I personally think it's more of a status statement, or fashion accessory to most of them. "Look! I got an iPad and you don't!" "iPads are cool, so since I have one, I'm cool also!"

This is true. That doesn't mean to the discerning customer it isn't useful though. Posers also get fancy laptops.

Most of the people seem to have gotten along fine without it, and everything I see them doing with it they were also doing previously, just using other (less expensive) devices or objects.

Say the same for smartphones. Or in fact, cell-phones ten years ago, we all managed just fine without it. Or broadband and the expectation of always-on internet.

you're not cutting edge at all, since the edge of my 4 year old desktop can cut your unneeded iPad in two.

Are you really that dumb? Cutting edge doesn't mean faster than your PC. The Nokia 3210 was cutting edge once. Smartphones are not comparable power to a PC either. When your desktop PC can weigh the same as a paperback book, that argument makes sense.

Quick money lesson here: Don't look at an object and ask yourself, "Do I need that?", because you'll convince yourself that you do.
Instead, a year from now, as your going about your daily life, when you encounter a problem that the iPad would solve, ask yourself whether it's worth the investment.

Remember, it doesn't cost you $500. It costs a *minimum* of $500 for the *cheapest version*, which is WiFi only.

  • Want more than 16gb storage? Extra $100 to $200.
  • Want the 3G mobile one? Additional $130, plus the extra data costs on your phone bill ($480 over one year)
  • Ofcourse, now that you have one... you need apps for it right? Ofcourse you do! You want a popular device to look cool, so you need the popular apps that everyone's talking about. Another $200 in spontaneous buys over 1 year.
The sticker price is not the real cost of ownership. You are throwing away $1200 or more on something you absolutely 100% DO NOT NEED.

Is the iPad useful? Definitely. Do you need it? Absolutely not. So should you get one? No.

When did anyone say an iPad was anything except a luxury item? Is your logic nobody should buy things they don't need? I assume you don't have a flat-screen or a games console?

Instead of buying something that'll cost you $1200 over the next year, why don't you invest the money, to make you $1200 over the next year. Do you need more money? Yes. Having money is cool. Making/saving money? Now that's cutting edge and smart.

Indeed, then you can die rich.

Not to mention, an iPad is an excellent purchase as a developer, to make money by creating applications independently or by selling your time to another company.

Sponsor:

#22 CobraMantis   Members   -  Reputation: 148

Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:27 PM

My wife and I are really loving ours. I mainly bought it to use for iOS app development, but it's gotten a ton of use beyond that. Reading books, newspapers, magazines. Surfing web. Sharing pictures when we go to my parents' house. Playing games from the app store (there are some great ones, and many are hilariously cheap compared to other platforms, even for exactly the same game). Super portable Netflix-watching. GPS navigation. A bit of touch-screen painting. It just feels much, much more portable than my laptop, so I'll generally pick up the iPad for many tasks I used to need my bulkier laptop for. Touch-input on a large screen also makes it feel very different from using a laptop, and I find that I like it better for some things (except lots of typing, obviously). The battery also definitely lasts longer than my laptop's does. It's completely silent and never even gets warm after extended use. So I'm really liking it for a variety of uses.

Uninterested in fashion statements though. Can't comment on that.


#23 Gamer Gamester   Members   -  Reputation: 136

Posted 06 April 2011 - 12:26 AM

iPads look pretty, but do you really want to support a closed computing platform?

Not to mention, an iPad is an excellent purchase as a developer, to make money by creating applications independently or by selling your time to another company.

Except that you can't develop on it. Posted Image

Apple makes hardware for a profit (3x typical price markup).
Developers make software for a profit.
Both depend on each other, so I find it odd that software companies would go along with giving up so much power to the hardware companies.
Control over where and how to distribute/sell software, boundaries of acceptable software content, 'veto' power, 30% of revenue...

#24 JDX_John   Members   -  Reputation: 284

Posted 06 April 2011 - 11:37 AM

iPads look pretty, but do you really want to support a closed computing platform?

Maybe it might surprise you to know, most people don't care about this stuff. And anyway Android is more than a little closed.

Not to mention, an iPad is an excellent purchase as a developer, to make money by creating applications independently or by selling your time to another company.

Except that you can't develop on it. Posted Image

Apple makes hardware for a profit (3x typical price markup).
Developers make software for a profit.
Both depend on each other, so I find it odd that software companies would go along with giving up so much power to the hardware companies.
Control over where and how to distribute/sell software, boundaries of acceptable software content, 'veto' power, 30% of revenue...

The companies want to make money. iPhone/Pad lets them do this. Sure they don't like giving up control in many cases, but they'd rather have 70% of a lot than a 100% of not much. Just like console games... those are very tightly controlled, much more than iOS apps.

As a freelance developer knowing how to develop on iOS can be a great way to make decent money because it's still a relatively rare skillset. So as well as making your own apps, you can get someone to pay you $X/hour to make their apps.

www.simulatedmedicine.com - medical simulation software

Looking to find experienced Ogre & shader developers/artists. PM me or contact through website with a contact email address if interested.


#25 Gamer Gamester   Members   -  Reputation: 136

Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:57 PM

Maybe it might surprise you to know, most people don't care about this stuff.

I'm can't say I'm surprised. I think most people would care if they understood the difference.

And anyway Android is more than a little closed.

I completely agree. Not satisfied with mobile OSes at the moment.

The companies want to make money. iPhone/Pad lets them do this.

I think it depends -- some apps sell really well but others can't break even. If you have no good plans/ideas for attracting customers, then yes, the app store will make you more money than otherwise. However, your app will be only available through the same avenue as all other apps.... it can be hard to stand out. And in general app store customers seem to expect apps to have a very low price, resulting in:

there are some great ones, and many are hilariously cheap compared to other platforms, even for exactly the same game


I would argue that in many cases a business can creatively use their control of how and where their software is available to actually attract more customer attention (while charging a fairer price). And you can maintain a customer base as you have the actual customer data. This is a whole side of business on top of product development -- if you're only setup for development, it can make sense to outsource marketing/distribution to someone like Apple, but realize that you're basically throwing your app onto the heap. You can still market your app store app outside of Apple, of course, but if that's successful then you don't really need Apple to get your market in the first place. It might take longer, but I think businesses are better off in the long term if they build up their own market rather than relying on Apple's (which will never truly be their own -- Apple has all the control there).

As a freelance developer knowing how to develop on iOS can be a great way to make decent money because it's still a relatively rare skillset.


I agree -- I've done my fair share of freelance iOS development. My ability to negotiate much higher rates than offered indicates that I must have relatively rare skills. Posted Image Despite the pay, I'm of the opinion that iOS development is a unnecessary pain -- it feels like the state of the development art has gone back to the early 90s on that platform. And for my own software business I refuse to support Apple's business model. I think the software industry is selling themselves out for (often uncertain) short-term profits on this one -- the software industry should not let the hardware industry take control of its market.

#26 FableFox   Members   -  Reputation: 487

Posted 06 April 2011 - 10:04 PM

Personally, I don't need ipad, too expensive, too bulky. I am saving for that Asus/Acer? thingy though (the one with stylus). So that I can draw comic on the go, or at publisher house, or at the library (my favourite - free air cond !!!!!! - i know, i live in a 3rd world Posted Image ).

i can install a lot of app i already own (like art rage), and any win7 compatible app.

As for portability, I only upgrade my handphone recently (I bought garmin asus nuvifone A50) - only for three main reason :

- free GPS
- android OS (so i can install a lot of free usefull and productivity app)
- finger based input. extermely tiny stylus are soooo passe (my previous phone ius asus pda). not to mention that winmobile 6.5 is soo passe too.

i need something that i can carry around in my pocket most of the time so that i can be productive. allow me not to get lost. and do things. i didn't own iphone or ipad. not because i hate apple, it just i'm quite stingy when it come to technology - because it depreciate fast. and that asus pda is the fastest. but then again, microsoft, bin? ding? zing? you know, that phone which discontinued within 2 weeks? now that depreciate faster. and to know that it's MIcrosoft product? Gasp!
Fable Fox is Stronger <--- Fable Fox is Stronger Project

#27 valderman   Members   -  Reputation: 512

Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:32 AM


iPads look pretty, but do you really want to support a closed computing platform?

Maybe it might surprise you to know, most people don't care about this stuff. And anyway Android is more than a little closed.

Closed as in "not free software" - nobody cares. Closed as in "we decide what programs you can run, we've also intentionally crippled the device in various ways to make it harder to run what you want on it" - a surprising amount of people do care.

#28 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3539

Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:36 AM

I would love to develop IPad games. I was looking into the IPad 2 tonight, had the money in my hand to buy one on the spot, but Apple has made the whole thing too troublesome.

You need to own a Mac. I'd have no problem with that if the products weren't insanely overpriced. Looking through the available options shows me that machines that cost double what I paid for a higher end rig still only have 1/4th and 1/3rd of the specs. That's a very steep price to pay for someone who only wants one to type code and hit the compile button. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to compile an app on my Windows 7 machine, and the Mac platform has nothing else to offer me to make owning one worthwhile.

Beyond making my own games, I have no reason to own an IPad. It pales in comparison to a 200 dollar netbook . For the price of an IPad, you can get a fairly decent laptop too. I've known a few people who own them and they can't even seem to justify their purchase of the thing. It just seemed like the next 'thing to buy'. I'm sure it's a great device for those whose usage scenarios will allow them to get the most out of it. But the IPad isn't useful for the things I do with a computer.

I'm also not a fan of the developer fee just to tinker around with my own hardware. I think the fee should be paid to submit an app for review and sale. But this is more of a nitpick than a real issue.

But all together, for me, it's just not a wise investment. Like flushing several thousand dollars down the toilet. It makes much more sense to someone who has already invested in the Mac platform, but to an outsider, the barrier to entry is too high.

#29 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 07 April 2011 - 04:36 PM

]Closed as in "not free software" - nobody cares. Closed as in "we decide what programs you can run, we've also intentionally crippled the device in various ways to make it harder to run what you want on it" - a surprising amount of people do care.

my dad complained about not being able to use his phone as a wifi hotspot without paying extra despite having a wifi hot spot capable phone and an unlimited data plan before I did.

props to the old man.



#30 JDX_John   Members   -  Reputation: 284

Posted 08 April 2011 - 05:45 AM

I would love to develop IPad games. I was looking into the IPad 2 tonight, had the money in my hand to buy one on the spot, but Apple has made the whole thing too troublesome.

You need to own a Mac. I'd have no problem with that if the products weren't insanely overpriced. Looking through the available options shows me that machines that cost double what I paid for a higher end rig still only have 1/4th and 1/3rd of the specs. That's a very steep price to pay for someone who only wants one to type code and hit the compile button. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to compile an app on my Windows 7 machine, and the Mac platform has nothing else to offer me to make owning one worthwhile.

Beyond making my own games, I have no reason to own an IPad. It pales in comparison to a 200 dollar netbook . For the price of an IPad, you can get a fairly decent laptop too. I've known a few people who own them and they can't even seem to justify their purchase of the thing. It just seemed like the next 'thing to buy'. I'm sure it's a great device for those whose usage scenarios will allow them to get the most out of it. But the IPad isn't useful for the things I do with a computer.

I'm also not a fan of the developer fee just to tinker around with my own hardware. I think the fee should be paid to submit an app for review and sale. But this is more of a nitpick than a real issue.

But all together, for me, it's just not a wise investment. Like flushing several thousand dollars down the toilet. It makes much more sense to someone who has already invested in the Mac platform, but to an outsider, the barrier to entry is too high.

I think those are decent points. Note though that you can get a cheaper MacMini even one a couple of years old for probably the same cost as the iPad itself. I'll totally agree that having to get a Mac just to develop is a pain but if the extra $500 investment puts you off, you're not really set up to do this as a business anyway.

www.simulatedmedicine.com - medical simulation software

Looking to find experienced Ogre & shader developers/artists. PM me or contact through website with a contact email address if interested.


#31 Trapper Zoid   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1370

Posted 08 April 2011 - 06:06 AM

I might end up buying one, but only if I decide to get into iPad app development.

For general use, my iPod Touch and my netbook cover all the portable bases that the iPad would cover. To me the iPad seems a very useful device if you've got the need for a digital clipboard, but that's simply not functionality I need. All I'd use it for is surfing the 'net away from the desk, and it needs to be cheaper for me to buy it for that.



#32 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3539

Posted 08 April 2011 - 06:49 AM

It's more then 500$.

I'm aware of the Mac Mini. They start at 749.99$ here (with pathetic specs compare to a PC of similar price). Even the 1000$ model is laughable. But it's just a box. I need a monitor for it +200$. I'm not going to be taking apart my PC and hooking the mac into it every time I want to switch. Especially since my asset pipeline of Photoshop and Blender runs on my windows PC. Another PSE license for the Mac would run me ~100$ extra, and I wouldn't run Blender on that 320M GPU.

Then the IPAD itself is 512$ in it's cheapest configuration.

We are already past way 1200$, or 1400$ with a monitor.

That's before the huge sales tax and environmental fees we have to pay here.

Apple Developer fee 100$

Unity Pro 1500$ is required for Unity IOS Pro 1500$.

And once again, as per the previous post, I'm talking about MY usage scenario, and prices are set to my region. YMMV.

The Motorola XOOM seems like a much more realistic option. 599$ and that's it. + the 25$ developer fee. But Android dev isn't the same. All the machines are different. Even with the tablets that have come out in the last 2 months, the specs are varying wildly. Comparing the XOOM to the other brand seems like comparing a Pentium 4 with a geforce 3 to a 386sx with a crappy ibm on board video card. And there are even more tablets coming soon with their own specs.

#33 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2092

Posted 08 April 2011 - 07:00 AM

500 $??
Thats more than my monthly payment. For a thing that does um....something.

#34 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 08 April 2011 - 07:07 AM

It's more then 500$.

I'm aware of the Mac Mini. They start at 749.99$ here (with pathetic specs compare to a PC of similar price). Even the 1000$ model is laughable. But it's just a box. I need a monitor for it +200$. I'm not going to be taking apart my PC and hooking the mac into it every time I want to switch. Especially since my asset pipeline of Photoshop and Blender runs on my windows PC. Another PSE license for the Mac would run me ~100$ extra, and I wouldn't run Blender on that 320M GPU.

Then the IPAD itself is 512$ in it's cheapest configuration.

We are already past way 1200$, or 1400$ with a monitor.

That's before the huge sales tax and environmental fees we have to pay here.

Apple Developer fee 100$

Unity Pro 1500$ is required for Unity IOS Pro 1500$.

And once again, as per the previous post, I'm talking about MY usage scenario, and prices are set to my region. YMMV.

The Motorola XOOM seems like a much more realistic option. 599$ and that's it. + the 25$ developer fee. But Android dev isn't the same. All the machines are different. Even with the tablets that have come out in the last 2 months, the specs are varying wildly. Comparing the XOOM to the other brand seems like comparing a Pentium 4 with a geforce 3 to a 386sx with a crappy ibm on board video card. And there are even more tablets coming soon with their own specs.

You could use the new flash packager and flash/air for android. You can do all your development on the PC and submit to all mobile devices i believe. Not sure how air applications are handled on android monetarily. I only know that android tablets should support it. And I only heard about this flash business 2ish days ago, so I might not have all the details right.

If it is right though, unity will probably follow suit with allowing iphone development on PC.

#35 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3539

Posted 08 April 2011 - 05:06 PM

If it is right though, unity will probably follow suit with allowing iphone development on PC.

You can use the UDK to target the iPhone with just a Apple developer subscription. But it seems contrary to the EULA when signing up for that account. Posted ImagePosted Image

#36 stupid_programmer   Members   -  Reputation: 1001

Posted 08 April 2011 - 08:51 PM

It's more then 500$.

I'm aware of the Mac Mini. They start at 749.99$ here (with pathetic specs compare to a PC of similar price). Even the 1000$ model is laughable. But it's just a box. I need a monitor for it +200$. I'm not going to be taking apart my PC and hooking the mac into it every time I want to switch. Especially since my asset pipeline of Photoshop and Blender runs on my windows PC. Another PSE license for the Mac would run me ~100$ extra, and I wouldn't run Blender on that 320M GPU.

Then the IPAD itself is 512$ in it's cheapest configuration.

We are already past way 1200$, or 1400$ with a monitor.

That's before the huge sales tax and environmental fees we have to pay here.

Apple Developer fee 100$

Unity Pro 1500$ is required for Unity IOS Pro 1500$.

And once again, as per the previous post, I'm talking about MY usage scenario, and prices are set to my region. YMMV.

The Motorola XOOM seems like a much more realistic option. 599$ and that's it. + the 25$ developer fee. But Android dev isn't the same. All the machines are different. Even with the tablets that have come out in the last 2 months, the specs are varying wildly. Comparing the XOOM to the other brand seems like comparing a Pentium 4 with a geforce 3 to a 386sx with a crappy ibm on board video card. And there are even more tablets coming soon with their own specs.


You do seem to be adding fees in to try and prove your point how much more 'expensive' it is to develop for iOS. A KVM switch takes care of not having to buy another monitor. The 'crappy' Mac mini easily pushes my 23" monitor at 1920x1080. OSX will default the Win key to the Apple key automatically so a PC keyboard is just fine. You don't have to buy the pro licenses of Unity. You do have to buy the $400 indie iPhone version though. So unless you really need real time shadows then showing the Unity logo while your game loads isn't that big of a deal. Depending on how much you care about licenses you can use Boot Camp and install any Windows apps you are used to working with on a Mac. So in reality you can be doing iOS development for ~$1100. While that would be a serious investment for somebody just to play around with but if you are serious about making money doing indie games you have to expect to drop some money.

I just recently finished up doing an freelance iPhone game with Unity. My employer paid for my Unity and Apple developer licenses. And since I already have a full time job some of the money I made went into buying my Mac mini. If you play your cards right or just get plain lucky like I did you can get yourself setup pretty cheaply.

#37 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3539

Posted 09 April 2011 - 06:07 PM

...

There was nothing misleading in my post. I posted my own scenario and my own needs, and I made sure to mention that in each post. I did nothing to run up the cost.

A monitor switch wouldn't work well in my scenario with my workflow. I do see some nice LG monitors that have dual HDMI inputs and a switch to toggle between them however. That's not ideal, but it could be a compromise.


I don't work in IT, and never will. So I don't have a boss to buy me things. I'm a hobbyist and I have to fund my own purchases.

Lack of Unity Pro is hurting me as I type this. There are several features I could use to improve what I'm working on. I definitely need to buy it in the future.




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