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#41 owl   Banned   -  Reputation: 364

Posted 15 April 2011 - 06:53 AM

What is this supposed to be?
http://www.gamedev.n...r-creativ-r2786

It's written like a sales pitch, and Pete Falco, the author works on the photoshop team.


If you read the comments at the bottom he also seems to sell shoes! XD

EDIT: Bah, they just removed it. It was spam for shoes.
I like the Walrus best.

Sponsor:

#42 roverstu   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 221

Posted 15 April 2011 - 08:11 AM

I don't mind how big the "Like' button is, but I do mind it's color. Hardly anything on the front page is green, mostly it's all blue.
The like button should be a subtle shade of blue also, so it blends better with the page: visible but not disruptive.

Compare:

Posted Image

Also, on the news feed, the articles from "http://www.gamesindustry.biz/" you have to register on their site to read. Please don't link to news sites on the front page that require registration. (same comment also submitted to the issue tracker)

On the plus side, your targeted ads are getting better/more relevant. Posted Image



That looks pretty good. I think that could work color-wise.

#43 roverstu   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 221

Posted 15 April 2011 - 08:58 AM

Adding a new feature means manpower that isn't being spent on addressing bugs, unless you have infinite manpower, which I know is not the case with this site. I'd much rather you focus your efforts on restoring the forums to working order than uglifying the front page. We're talking about usability issues that concretely affect the quality of the forums. The lack of updates in viewing user content means that fewer follow-ups on posts occur. This is a bug that was filed in early January. You know, right after the new software launched. The loss of bookmarks means that many people can no longer find quality content that's been buried by the site's new obsession with showing only new crap. Again, a day one issue.

Also, you're also acting as if new bugs aren't being introduced as these new features go in. Have you noticed yet that post ratings haven't been showing up properly on individual posts? I doubt it, because no one has bothered to look at new issues in the tracker in a couple weeks. So you've fixed about 15 bugs in the last half month. That would sound more impressive if there weren't at least 20 unfiled issues in the problem tracker's bug report section. I'm sure some are duplicates, but it still doesn't sound like any actual progress is being made here.

And then there are the features that you've taken money from users for and still haven't delivered on, which is just bad ethics. See complaints made in the GDNet+ discussion.


The tracker is going to be phased out - we are currently working on all issues out of JIRA because it is a lot more feature complete than the tracker. Bugs are still submitted to the tracker but are just being copied over to JIRA. Kevin said he will see if it's possible to at least send an email back saying that the feedback was received.

"Active Content" contains everything posted within the last 24 hours. We've worked on both Active Content and VLC, put them up on the top of the page under the header - even submitted patches to invisionpower to have them fix it. We've fixed a huge number of problems since the relaunch so I'm not sure what you are referring to if you are implying nothing is getting fixed.

#44 Khawk   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 1362

Posted 15 April 2011 - 10:58 AM

Adding a new feature means manpower that isn't being spent on addressing bugs, unless you have infinite manpower, which I know is not the case with this site. I'd much rather you focus your efforts on restoring the forums to working order than uglifying the front page. We're talking about usability issues that concretely affect the quality of the forums. The lack of updates in viewing user content means that fewer follow-ups on posts occur. This is a bug that was filed in early January. You know, right after the new software launched. The loss of bookmarks means that many people can no longer find quality content that's been buried by the site's new obsession with showing only new crap. Again, a day one issue.

There are other methods in the new version of the site to do exactly what you're talking about. For instance, I subscribe to threads (like this one) or to responses to my posts, so I receive notifications every time someone makes a post. I've also subscribed to certain forums. Given this, how have we not addressed the replacement of bookmarks?

In addition, the Active Content and View Latest Content links have been on the page for over a month. These links actually provide more than "Active Topics" did on the old site because they include content from across the entire site, including the forums, blogs, news, articles, and so on. What additional functionality do they not provide?

Also, you're also acting as if new bugs aren't being introduced as these new features go in. Have you noticed yet that post ratings haven't been showing up properly on individual posts? I doubt it, because no one has bothered to look at new issues in the tracker in a couple weeks. So you've fixed about 15 bugs in the last half month. That would sound more impressive if there weren't at least 20 unfiled issues in the problem tracker's bug report section. I'm sure some are duplicates, but it still doesn't sound like any actual progress is being made here.

And then there are the features that you've taken money from users for and still haven't delivered on, which is just bad ethics. See complaints made in the GDNet+ discussion.

We've actually fixed well over 15 bugs in the last month, but that's besides the point. The important thing is that GDNet is going through change, and rapid change at that. We've started the staff blog to communicate changes and provide updates about the site. We are still deciding how communication on a per-issue basis will be addressed. Something will be done, but that decision has not been made yet. For now, as Mike has mentioned, we've moved to another system to help make us more efficient in addressing and organizing the submitted feedback. As for GDNet+, it's still a work-in-progress and a messy area through all this transition. Recognizing that you don't have all the information, if you think you have better ways to handle it then please post to our mods email list and we can discuss there.

#45 Khawk   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 1362

Posted 15 April 2011 - 11:00 AM

Also, on the news feed, the articles from "http://www.gamesindustry.biz/" you have to register on their site to read. Please don't link to news sites on the front page that require registration. (same comment also submitted to the issue tracker)



I agree with you and have removed gamesindustry.biz from the feed.



#46 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10367

Posted 15 April 2011 - 04:06 PM

There are other methods in the new version of the site to do exactly what you're talking about. For instance, I subscribe to threads (like this one) or to responses to my posts, so I receive notifications every time someone makes a post. I've also subscribed to certain forums. Given this, how have we not addressed the replacement of bookmarks?

Subscritions = active notification, Bookmarks = passive notification. Seeing as the notification read marking has broken (since the new site launch), the signal-to-noise ratio of active notifications degenerates very quickly. And let's not forget that notifications are single stream, so if I use them to keep track of threads, they are competing directly with private messages and other moderator notifications.

Particularly once a lounge thread like this makes its way into my notifications, chances are that it will rapidly bury any notifications I actually care about - and also require me to obsessively 'mark as read' my notifications if I want feedback when *new* notifications arrive.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#47 owl   Banned   -  Reputation: 364

Posted 15 April 2011 - 06:27 PM

There are other methods in the new version of the site to do exactly what you're talking about. For instance, I subscribe to threads (like this one) or to responses to my posts, so I receive notifications every time someone makes a post. I've also subscribed to certain forums. Given this, how have we not addressed the replacement of bookmarks?


That is true but he is talking about the ones we had and are lost. You know, you don't appreciate what you have until you lose it.
I like the Walrus best.

#48 Michael Tanczos   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 5451

Posted 15 April 2011 - 08:43 PM


There are other methods in the new version of the site to do exactly what you're talking about. For instance, I subscribe to threads (like this one) or to responses to my posts, so I receive notifications every time someone makes a post. I've also subscribed to certain forums. Given this, how have we not addressed the replacement of bookmarks?

Subscritions = active notification, Bookmarks = passive notification. Seeing as the notification read marking has broken (since the new site launch), the signal-to-noise ratio of active notifications degenerates very quickly. And let's not forget that notifications are single stream, so if I use them to keep track of threads, they are competing directly with private messages and other moderator notifications.

Particularly once a lounge thread like this makes its way into my notifications, chances are that it will rapidly bury any notifications I actually care about - and also require me to obsessively 'mark as read' my notifications if I want feedback when *new* notifications arrive.


You can also use "My Content" in your profile dropdown when you log in to see all the threads you have participated in.

#49 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10367

Posted 15 April 2011 - 08:47 PM

You can also use "My Content" in your profile dropdown when you log in to see all the threads you have participated in.

Yes, I am aware, but it doesn't allow one to mark just particular topics of interest.


Honestly, I am not decrying the new system on this count - notifications are a huge improvement over only having bookmarking on the old site. But it would be really nice to have bookmarking as well...

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#50 freeworld   Members   -  Reputation: 329

Posted 15 April 2011 - 09:39 PM

Interesting, I haven't seen the front page in a long time. Until the recent threads and iotd get moved back to the top, and work... I'll use my bookmark to the forums to navigate to the site.
[ dev journal ]
[ current projects' videos ]
[ Zolo Project ]
I'm not mean, I just like to get to the point.

#51 Palidine   Members   -  Reputation: 1281

Posted 15 April 2011 - 10:47 PM

Though I doubt you'd share, I'd be super curious to know what traffic has been like since the layout change. It seems to me like the forums have become a fairly useless wasteland. That and the original articles are the only reason I ever came to this site (for what, maybe 6 years now...). Hacker News, Reddit, Kotaku, gamasutra and my RSS feed are WAY better sources of industry news or "one stop shopping" than gamedev ever was or currently is in. But you guys got probably 80% of my day's worth of web traffic. Now you get maybe 5%

IMO, if you're focusing on news I think you've totally misunderstood what makes this site worthwhile.

I think that without the forums, this site dies. Outside of my workplace, there has never been another resource that I could find that has been filled with such experts in this field as gamedev has been. It will suck if that continues to fade away.

Totally unrelated: it's been strange to me how much the loss of my old user score from the old rating system has disincentivized me from coming back. I'd guess I'd always used that as some kind of self-worth to the community... w/e

Please fix the forums... (recent threads up above the fold on the homepage so I can just hit F5 while I'm at work without necessarily being logged in)

In the new botique web era, niche wins, same-same catchall loses.

-me

#52 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19366

Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:07 AM

Totally unrelated: it's been strange to me how much the loss of my old user score from the old rating system has disincentivized me from coming back. I'd guess I'd always used that as some kind of self-worth to the community... w/e

You do have a "reputation" now, under your username and display picture on the left. Not quite the same, but I believe the old ratings were used to set the initial reputation values. You get (or lose) reputation based on feedback given for individual posts.

#53 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7564

Posted 16 April 2011 - 09:05 AM

Ah, rep... aka 'another feature which got broken'... note how yours is 946 and mine is in the mid-60s, not bad considering I had close to 1970 on the old system... I complained about this when the site rolled out (not so much because I was hit but because it was massively inconsistant) and all it got was a vague reply and that was all..

#54 OneThreeThreeSeven   Banned   -  Reputation: -52

Posted 16 April 2011 - 09:55 AM

Ah, rep... aka 'another feature which got broken'... note how yours is 946 and mine is in the mid-60s, not bad considering I had close to 1970 on the old system... I complained about this when the site rolled out (not so much because I was hit but because it was massively inconsistant) and all it got was a vague reply and that was all..


Yeah it's bs. Certain mods got close to 1000 rep when the new system was implemented. Yet, regular members either got 0 - 60 but had a much higher rating in the old system.

It's a conspiracy! The illuminati of GDnet are tryin to keep us down.

#55 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7564

Posted 16 April 2011 - 10:56 AM

In fact on the rep system; it's now completely usless.

The main complaint about the rating system (beyond its existance) was that it was just a number with no idea as to what posts etc caused the rating change.

New site launches and huzzah! per post ratings, now we can feedback per-post which not only serves to let the poster know something is wrong with it but also indicate to other users that the post probably isn't very good.

At "some point" the ability to see how a post was rated was removed; so now we are back to basically the old system, but with a bunch of people with a large amount of rep and some with smaller for no other reason than their data happened to come across better from the old site and once again the ability to see what posts caused the problem and what post aren't worth paying attention to is gone.

It should be noted that, like other changes, this was dropped on the site without the mosd even having a small amount of heads up (I only found out when I came to rate up a post, the page refreshed and the rating buttons were gone but the post still had 0 (zero) next to it.. in fact, why even have that number there now?).

You know what... some how, in some way, you've managed to make the rating system WORSE on the site... and for that achievement I salute you, gg...

#56 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21008

Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:57 AM


Ah, rep... aka 'another feature which got broken'... note how yours is 946 and mine is in the mid-60s, not bad considering I had close to 1970 on the old system... I complained about this when the site rolled out (not so much because I was hit but because it was massively inconsistant) and all it got was a vague reply and that was all..


Yeah it's bs. Certain mods got close to 1000 rep when the new system was implemented. Yet, regular members either got 0 - 60 but had a much higher rating in the old system.

It's a conspiracy! The illuminati of GDnet are tryin to keep us down.

*Points at my rating* I'm not GDNet+, or staff, or a moderator. My rating started off higher. Why? The old rating *started* at 1000, and let you go up or down from there. The new rating system *starts* at 0, and goes up or down from there. So to transfer, they just took your current rating and subtracted 1000. For everyone, including staff and mods.

My old rating in the mid 1600s became the same thing minus 1000. So my rating on the new site started at somewhere in the 600s. The old staff who were 2000 or so, became 1000 or so. My guess, but I'm not 100% sure, is that the people less than 1000 were brought to 0, instead of negative, giving them a "fresh start". Some users have since then, gone into negative on their own. Also, a few users the staff mentioned accidentally got skipped over when they made the transfer and got reset to 0, they weren't sure how. You could PM a mod to fix it, if you believe yours is actually incorrect.


(YourOldScore - 1000) = yourNewScore
It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' rather than copy+pasting it all the time.
All glory be to the Man at the right hand... On David's throne the King will reign, and the Government will rest upon His shoulders. All the earth will see the salvation of God.
Of Stranger Flames - [indie turn-based rpg set in a para-historical French colony] | Indie RPG development journal

[Fly with me on Twitter] [Google+] [My broken website]

[Need web hosting? I personally like A Small Orange]


#57 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21008

Posted 16 April 2011 - 12:08 PM

At "some point" the ability to see how a post was rated was removed;

It wasn't removed - just ruined.
They made it so the rep of a post only shows positive or negative if it's at or above 3.

Like this:
if(postRating < -2)
	ShowRating(postRating+2)
else if(postRating > 2)
	ShowRating(postRating-2)
else
	ShowRating(0)

Which results in:
  • PostRating . . ShowsValue
  • -5 ................... -3
  • -4 ................... -2
  • -3 ................... -1
  • -2 .................... 0
  • -1 .................... 0
  • 0 ..................... 0
  • +1 ................... 0
  • +2 ................... 0
  • +3 .................. +1
  • +4 .................. +2
  • +5 .................. +3

Which, I completely agree, ruins the value of the whole thing.
I do think that they should hide the first -1 rating (makes the site seem friendlier), but two -2 ratings should then show up as -2, not -1.
And positive +1,+2, etc... there's no reason whatsoever to hide that!
It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' rather than copy+pasting it all the time.
All glory be to the Man at the right hand... On David's throne the King will reign, and the Government will rest upon His shoulders. All the earth will see the salvation of God.
Of Stranger Flames - [indie turn-based rpg set in a para-historical French colony] | Indie RPG development journal

[Fly with me on Twitter] [Google+] [My broken website]

[Need web hosting? I personally like A Small Orange]


#58 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3555

Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:11 PM


You can also use "My Content" in your profile dropdown when you log in to see all the threads you have participated in.

Read the bug tracker lately? As in, ever? That feature is bugged and has been since at least January 12th. See above post.

More like read this THREAD lately. I already pointed out the bugs with it right here.
The answers in this thread are like being told to hop on one foot, after buying a pair of shoes and only getting one in the box. Posted Image

At "some point" the ability to see how a post was rated was removed; so now we are back to basically the old system, but with a bunch of people with a large amount of rep and some with smaller for no other reason than their data happened to come across better from the old site and once again the ability to see what posts caused the problem and what post aren't worth paying attention to is gone.

Yep. Makes it worthless to rate down some bad programming advice in a thread so the OP can see not to follow it.



#59 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7564

Posted 16 April 2011 - 01:20 PM

Which, I completely agree, ruins the value of the whole thing.
I do think that they should hide the first -1 rating (makes the site seem friendlier), but two -2 ratings should then show up as -2, not -1.
And positive +1,+2, etc... there's no reason whatsoever to hide that!


Maybe, but the problem with that is it relies on X number of people with enough knowedge to see a bad post and down rate it before it becomes visable which adds to the chance of someone who DOESNT know better following the advise.

Clamping negative rep, sure I can see that as the number follows you around, but the ability to mark a post as 'bad' in a technical form is, imo, very important...

#60 magic_man   Members   -  Reputation: 54

Posted 16 April 2011 - 02:17 PM


Which, I completely agree, ruins the value of the whole thing.
I do think that they should hide the first -1 rating (makes the site seem friendlier), but two -2 ratings should then show up as -2, not -1.
And positive +1,+2, etc... there's no reason whatsoever to hide that!


Maybe, but the problem with that is it relies on X number of people with enough knowedge to see a bad post and down rate it before it becomes visable which adds to the chance of someone who DOESNT know better following the advise.

Clamping negative rep, sure I can see that as the number follows you around, but the ability to mark a post as 'bad' in a technical form is, imo, very important...


I thought this per post rating system was meant to cut down on '+1' 'posts, I did not know about this change was it mentioned to the community? I now know the reason for why I had to effectively make a '+1' post after the vote was a complete and utter waste of time.
Is 'Posts' in profiles broken as well? I had to go searching for the thread instead.

Maybe this whole charade will be profitable for the staff as they can now release a book of 'How not to do a website _upgrade_'
"You insulted me!" I did not say that in the private message Tom Sloper!




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