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[Team] Illium -- Smubo Games


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#1 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 24 April 2011 - 04:26 PM

Team name:
Smubo Games (not yet a legally recognized company).

Project name:
Illium

Brief description:
Illium will be a 2D action/adventure fantasy game in which the player will engage in active, real-time battles and partake in intellectually challenging and highly interactive tasks while lost at sea in a unique fantasy world.

Target aim:
Commercial.

Compensation:
A portion of the revenue that has been decided by the amount of work contributed will be paid at the first of every month.

Technology (Client):
Target Platform: Windows, Linux PC (Intel/AMD only), Mac OS X (Intel/AMD only)
Programming Language: C++
Other APIs: Win32 API and DirectX9 (Windows), xlib or xcb and OpenGL (Linux PC), and Cocoa and NSGL (Mac OS X).

Talent needed:
C++ Programmers - 6 months of experience at a minimum, familiarity with native APIs on your system is desired but not a must.
Concept Artists - Some samples would qualify you.
2D Game Art Artists - I don't know how much experience would qualify you. Some samples would be nice.

Team structure:
Nate Fries (nfries88) - C/C++ Programmer. Originator of game concept. Project Leader.
Daniel O'Neill - ASM/C++ Programmer. Inactive.
Sherard D - C++ Programmer. Has proven to be very reliable over the past few weeks.
Ryan C - Pixel Artist. Recent addition, but long time acquaintance.
"magich" - Pixel Artist. Recent Addition.

Website:
Smubo Home Page
Smubo Forums

Contacts:
nafiepoo@hotmail.com for msn/live messenger
nfries88@yahoo.com for email
nfries88 on skype or gtalk

Previous Work by Team:
I was an official developer at opentibia, an open-source clone of a 2D MMORPG that's been around for well over a decade. Some of the private servers I helped develop still see hundreds of daily players.

Additional Info:
The aim for this game is to blow people away with fun and unique gameplay, not with visual beauty.

Feedback:
ANY
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

Sponsor:

#2 Bronco78th   Members   -  Reputation: 136

Posted 25 April 2011 - 05:36 AM

Just curious, if its Freeware how are you going to receive money to pay staff? Ingame Adverts?

Regards,

John

#3 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1918

Posted 25 April 2011 - 05:47 AM

The warrior looks like a soldier from Myth a game made by Bungie back in the old days :mellow:

Edit: Yes it is from Myth the fallen lords.

I found it here on this link http://lparchive.org/Myth-The-Fallen-Lords/Update%2010/

I played that game many years ago.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#4 nsmadsen   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4358

Posted 25 April 2011 - 08:09 AM

Additional Info:
The hope for the game is to play similarly to old-school Legend of Zelda games (pre-OoT), with quests more in the vein of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion or Fallout 3.
Here's the first piece of concept art, for a warrior player:
Posted Image

The warrior looks like a soldier from Myth a game made by Bungie back in the old days :mellow:

Edit: Yes it is from Myth the fallen lords.

I found it here on this link http://lparchive.org...ds/Update%2010/

I played that game many years ago.


nfries88 - any response to this? Are you taking work that your project didn't do and claiming it as your own?
Nathan Madsen
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios

#5 Ryman   Members   -  Reputation: 115

Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:17 AM

What a joke, this guy goes around stealing assets and 99% of the people here want to make:

A. MMORPGFPSRTS
B. 3D FPS that rivals COD and Halo franchises.
C. Minecraft remake.

God forbid these people have any completed projects under their belt.

#6 Isayso   Members   -  Reputation: 55

Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:46 AM

Guys.. He/She never claimed to have made anything, he/she just said this is a piece of concept art, he/she never said it's being used by his/her company..Concept is just an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances, whether that be his company or just to get an idea in our heads. He/She was just trying to convey a visual representation of a design...

#7 nsmadsen   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4358

Posted 25 April 2011 - 10:51 AM

Guys.. He/She never claimed to have made anything, he/she just said this is a piece of concept art, he/she never said it's being used by his/her company..Concept is just an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances, whether that be his company or just to get an idea in our heads. He/She was just trying to convey a visual representation of a design...


Isayso - I think you're, at the very least, splitting hairs here. He also didn't cite the image or be upfront about it not being from his team. When posting a recruitment thread about a new project where and saying "Here's the first piece of concept art, for a warrior player:" is can very easily imply that this is original work from the team. If this is the case then he should cite the borrowed image and be upfront about it being a reference for the type of art style. It's unclear what nfries88 has done here which is why I've given him an opportunity to respond and explain himself before taking any action.

Thanks,

Nate
Nathan Madsen
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios

#8 Isayso   Members   -  Reputation: 55

Posted 25 April 2011 - 11:00 AM

I understand and agree, it's just that he had such a good reputation that it doesn't seem he would do such a thing! I mean, even if he DID plan to steal someone else's image, at furthest, the only action available for us to take is to not support the game, but if this idea is interesting to someone (me), they'd just they'd let something like this pass by. I, however, want this game made, I'm a big fan of LoZ and Oblivion!

#9 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:31 PM

Whoa! Thanks for pointing that out.

My concept artist claimed to have made that. I will definitely need to talk to him, to see if any of the work he has shown me is actually his original creation.

EDIT: I love how you gave me negative rep for that, without waiting for a response. I can't possibly catch all cases of IP theft, I'm one guy. Well, whatever. I'm certainly going to verbally disembowel that little brat who said he made that...

Just curious, if its Freeware how are you going to receive money to pay staff? Ingame Adverts?

Regards,

John

No. If you had read past the first word of each line, you'd probably realize I had answered your question before you asked it

What a joke, this guy goes around stealing assets and 99% of the people here want to make:

A. MMORPGFPSRTS
B. 3D FPS that rivals COD and Halo franchises.
C. Minecraft remake.

God forbid these people have any completed projects under their belt.

A. Yep, making an action/adventure MMO. Just like everyone else here. Right.:rolleyes:
B. Not a 3D game. I honestly prefer 2D games, generally.
C. I only try to create games that are unique. If I wanted to make a game that's exactly like someone else's game, why wouldn't I just do it
I don't think I've seen a game suggestion like this on gamedev yet, and I've been lurking around since '06. If I had, I would have joined their project instead.
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

#10 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:50 PM

I had my eyes on this post, these stuff happen often, just stop paying him for his work, (if you did pay him, if not just never trust him)... well now that thats cleared up, do you guys need any programmers? I am very experienced in SDL, C++ and I am utterly in love with this idea! I am familiar with 2D programming, yes.


We certainly could. Have you worked on prior projects?

Until I ensure that the rest of the works he provided to me are his originals (most of them are in a style similar to that one, but not nearly as clean and refined) he is removed from the project. Fortunately he was working for free, so aside for a little bit of lost rep (I'll probably get it back next time I get bored and wander over to the beginner's forum, anyway) and some rude and undeserving comments from someone who clearly didn't read the OP, no harm is done.
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

#11 Hardcharger   Members   -  Reputation: 151

Posted 25 April 2011 - 03:42 PM

I am currently employed and unable to assist you; but, I'm curious as to why you chose to develop your server with C#. I don't disagree with your decision, but I'd like to compare your rationale with mine (my company is developing an online [not MMO] game and I'm leading the server side development).

#12 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:43 PM

I am currently employed and unable to assist you; but, I'm curious as to why you chose to develop your server with C#. I don't disagree with your decision, but I'd like to compare your rationale with mine (my company is developing an online [not MMO] game and I'm leading the server side development).


I'm not completely sure about Mono or dotGnu, but .NET features a wonderful compacting garbage collector that is very useful for programs that are meant to run for considerable lengths of time (weeks or even months). Basically it just moves memory around seamlessly to ensure that your program has the fewest allocated pages possible to hold the memory required (not counting the wiggle-room silently given by the OS, of course). This is extremely useful in cases where your program will run 24/7 but will have notably different memory requirements for certain times of the day, and also just for when your program is going to run for very long periods of time. Plus the GC means no need to manage memory, which simplifies some cases considerably without somewhat awkward workarounds like boost::enable_shared_from_this.

The framework library also provides a fairly straight forward API out-of-the-box for asynchronous network I/O (System.Net.Sockets.Socket.BeginRead/BeginWrite) and asynchronous task execution (System.Threading.Tasks.Task). There are also well-maintained MySQL client bindings to C# (Connector/NET), although using this really offers nothing over mysqlclient or mysql++.

CLR is a bastard child of the "stupid new way of programming" (excessive use of exceptions, GC'd languages, etc) and the "smart new way of programming" (asynchronous I/O, extreme concurrency, threadpooling, etc). By new, I mean post-1980s pretty much. You take alot of the bad, but in cases like this the good outweighs it.

As for why I'm not using C# for the client even though I'm using it for the server, it's pretty much for the reason above. The client doesn't get the advantages of C# (at least not in the full effect that the server would), but still gets all of the downsides (exceptions for damn near everything, occasionally clunky semantics, no low-level memory access without interfacing with C/C++ through managed C++). Really, I would only recommend C# for making a server intending to handle a high number of active connections. Any other times, it provides nothing over C++ unless you're a fan of the "stupid new way". Much like Java in that regard, except C# generally performs better (through .NET at least).
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

#13 Hardcharger   Members   -  Reputation: 151

Posted 25 April 2011 - 04:55 PM

That's a solid reasoning. It matched my assumption and then some.


Best of luck to you guys!

P.S. Not sure how far along your server architecture is, but Raknet recently released version 4 with C# support. Not that big of a deal, but I thought I'd throw that out there.



#14 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 25 April 2011 - 05:12 PM

That's a solid reasoning. It matched my assumption and then some.


Best of luck to you guys!

P.S. Not sure how far along your server architecture is, but Raknet recently released version 4 with C# support. Not that big of a deal, but I thought I'd throw that out there.



I am not familiar with Raknet, but network I/O using the .NET framework (which Mono is mostly compatible with) is laughably simple. If Raknet aims to provide a repurposable game-oriented protocol or something, it's not very difficult to implement your own.
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

#15 nsmadsen   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4358

Posted 26 April 2011 - 09:44 AM

Whoa! Thanks for pointing that out.

My concept artist claimed to have made that. I will definitely need to talk to him, to see if any of the work he has shown me is actually his original creation.


For now I'll let this slide in hopes that it was truly just an oversight on your end and that you get rid of the artist that is stealing other's work. If something like this happens again, this project will be shut down. Other disciplinary action may be taken as well.

EDIT: I love how you gave me negative rep for that, without waiting for a response. I can't possibly catch all cases of IP theft, I'm one guy. Well, whatever. I'm certainly going to verbally disembowel that little brat who said
he made that...


Stop lecturing the forums about changes to your reputation. It's a system set in place for people to either rate up or down based on your activity on these forums. If you don't like getting negative feedback then perhaps re-evaluate your actions and the way you interact with other forum members. But whining about it isn't really going to help your cause at all nor does it make you look like a mature, capable and professional game designer which could potentially hurt recruitment.

A. Yep, making an action/adventure MMO. Just like everyone else here. Right.:rolleyes:
B. Not a 3D game. I honestly prefer 2D games, generally.
C. I only try to create games that are unique. If I wanted to make a game that's exactly like someone else's game, why wouldn't I just do it
I don't think I've seen a game suggestion like this on gamedev yet, and I've been lurking around since '06. If I had, I would have joined their project instead.


MMO projects can and usually do get negative reaction by some on these forums mainly because so very few get completed, let alone make an impact on the game industry or even a profit for all of that work. This is especially true due to those "WoW-killer MMO projects" that we see ever once in a while. Many freelancers would rather work on a casual or smaller scale project instead of an MMO in hopes of raising the likelihood that their work will actually be seen by others and perhaps even make a penny or two. If you're going to try and make a MMO then it's best to have everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) planned out as best as possible.

I'll also note that you've created many other projects in a relatively short amount of time which can be a negative thing. It can make other members question your ability to stick with a project and see things through until the end.
Nathan Madsen
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios

#16 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:51 AM


Whoa! Thanks for pointing that out.

My concept artist claimed to have made that. I will definitely need to talk to him, to see if any of the work he has shown me is actually his original creation.


For now I'll let this slide in hopes that it was truly just an oversight on your end and that you get rid of the artist that is stealing other's work. If something like this happens again, this project will be shut down. Other disciplinary action may be taken as well.

I thank you for taking the time for things to be explained.


EDIT: I love how you gave me negative rep for that, without waiting for a response. I can't possibly catch all cases of IP theft, I'm one guy. Well, whatever. I'm certainly going to verbally disembowel that little brat who said
he made that...


Stop lecturing the forums about changes to your reputation. It's a system set in place for people to either rate up or down based on your activity on these forums. If you don't like getting negative feedback then perhaps re-evaluate your actions and the way you interact with other forum members. But whining about it isn't really going to help your cause at all nor does it make you look like a mature, capable and professional game designer which could potentially hurt recruitment.

Not to be disrespectful, especially as you've been awfully gracious in this situation, but I was expressing displeasure at the immature act of jumping to conclusions. It was merely a comment.


A. Yep, making an action/adventure MMO. Just like everyone else here. Right.:rolleyes:
B. Not a 3D game. I honestly prefer 2D games, generally.
C. I only try to create games that are unique. If I wanted to make a game that's exactly like someone else's game, why wouldn't I just do it
I don't think I've seen a game suggestion like this on gamedev yet, and I've been lurking around since '06. If I had, I would have joined their project instead.


MMO projects can and usually do get negative reaction by some on these forums mainly because so very few get completed, let alone make an impact on the game industry or even a profit for all of that work. This is especially true due to those "WoW-killer MMO projects" that we see ever once in a while. Many freelancers would rather work on a casual or smaller scale project instead of an MMO in hopes of raising the likelihood that their work will actually be seen by others and perhaps even make a penny or two. If you're going to try and make a MMO then it's best to have everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) planned out as best as possible.

I'll also note that you've created many other projects in a relatively short amount of time which can be a negative thing. It can make other members question your ability to stick with a project and see things through until the end.

Arcane Lore failed after about a month of development because everyone involved suddenly disappeared. After a couple months of no communication and no further offers for assistance, I took the cue that the project would be near-impossible to complete in a timely manner, so I sought a simpler project which I could have completed (very crudely, but completed) myself -- Legendarium.
Legendarium seemed to be a fine project, but shortly after making that topic for Legendarium, I was contacted by a nearly full team making a mildly interesting project that could use a person of my talents, which to me seemed like a wise option at the time (afterall, a full team means we could develop more projects later). No offense to the team, they're all great guys with a fair amount of talent, and while I think I did them a good help with my talents, they need help far beyond my own talents to be a successful and profitable venture.
While I was working with them, I met the concept artist who caused the whole debacle on this thread, who seemingly had no talent but some interesting game ideas. I was trying to teach him programming on the side, but he didn't really seem to be picking it up at all. Then he showed me some art he "made", I saw that he was very skilled. I wound up leaving that other project (though not for that reason), and decided to discuss with him about a project we could work on together -- which is this, Illium.
Hopefully Illium won't suffer the same fate. Unfortunately with that mar on my reputation thanks to a plagiarist, who knows if I'll get any serious offers for assistance? And unfortunately I haven't managed to contact him yet. But again, as long as "programmer art" doesn't deter players, I could probably implement this myself. If it does, maybe I'll just give up the indie dream, go to college with my GI Bill, move hundreds of miles, and work for a massive company that probably treats its software engineers and/or IT department like trash.

Hopefully this explains my behavior with regards to making many projects in a short period of time to anyone who has noted it. I don't expect it excuses me from skepticism, though.

As for MMOs being a deterrent for some developers, that's fine. I personally scoff at most of the MMO threads here. Half of them don't even know what college and commonly-found books could teach you about implementing such a game, much less the things that you actually need to venture into the wild for. Plus half of them just want WoW clones, which from a marketing point of view is essentially pitting David against Goliath without any higher power to guide his stone. But there's a difference between seeing "[MMO]" in the title or "online" in the topic description and choosing to ignore the thread and posting rude generalizations on the thread, especially when some of them aren't actually true for the project.
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

#17 Orymus   Members   -  Reputation: 154

Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:07 PM

But again, as long as "programmer art" doesn't deter players, I could probably implement this myself.


Definitely. And so should you. Prog art is a good, inexpensive way, to test a concept. I've personalled erred way too often on the side of "I need art now" and seen projects turn to dust because of that. Pushing art to later stages of the game, albeit keeping it in mind in terms of restriction, is what you want to do.


If it does, maybe I'll just give up the indie dream, go to college with my GI Bill, move hundreds of miles, and work for a massive company that probably treats its software engineers and/or IT department like trash.

Dare I comment on that? Please don't generalize the gaming industry to your narrow perception of it. I'm an industry professionnal, moreso, a producer. I make it a personal goal not to treat people like trash. Comments like these enrage me, but I'll let this one slide.


Generally however, I'd like to support the thesis you have been fooled by your artist. I've worked with you briefly, and you are at least part of the very few serious individuals. You wouldn't expose yourself to liabilities such as these very early on, especially not with the sums of money and efforts you've invested in your projects. I'll have to agree however that you've made quite a few "project swings" in the last couple months/weeks. I believe serious applicants may need a tangible reason to believe that Illium isn't just another step in your "progress to the real project" aka, that it is not a standby until you get something better, not just a training of some sort.

Generally, the project sounds appealing, but you do not sound convinced/dedicated to it. The reason that strikes me for that is that you do not have the "vision". You think like an engineer, you see the technological challenge, where it will lead you, what you'll need, but you do not appear to be emotionally attached to the project, and cancelation may cause frustration, but not much more. In the industry, a producer such as me would be the reason why your project needs to go on, potentially because I represent either the publisher or the client. In the indie environment however, the producer slot normally pairs with the head developer (a designer or programmer notably). While you have the means, resources and will to proceed with that project, it seems you still need someone to set the direction and boundaries. Is my assumption correct?

I'd personally suggest hiring some kind of a serious freelancer designer, but, based on your previous venture, I'd understand your hesitation (his previous partnership with a designer didn't work so well because the designer was more interested in making "his own game" than using the bases he had laid down).

A plagiarist artist + a self-interested designer? I think your main issue Nate is to get the wrong people onboard. You might need to start asking for resumes...
The fact you were there before they invented the wheel doesn't make you any better than the wheel nor does it entitle you to claim property over the wheel. Being there at the right time just isn't enough, you need to take part into it.

I have a blog!

#18 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:28 PM

But again, as long as "programmer art" doesn't deter players, I could probably implement this myself.


Definitely. And so should you. Prog art is a good, inexpensive way, to test a concept. I've personalled erred way too often on the side of "I need art now" and seen projects turn to dust because of that. Pushing art to later stages of the game, albeit keeping it in mind in terms of restriction, is what you want to do.

Indeed. I did this while I was teaching myself in high school, but now that I'm working full-time (well, more than full-time), I'm worried that I'd have trouble with developing in a reasonable time frame.

If it does, maybe I'll just give up the indie dream, go to college with my GI Bill, move hundreds of miles, and work for a massive company that probably treats its software engineers and/or IT department like trash.

Dare I comment on that? Please don't generalize the gaming industry to your narrow perception of it. I'm an industry professionnal, moreso, a producer. I make it a personal goal not to treat people like trash. Comments like these enrage me, but I'll let this one slide.

Yeah, I know, it's not everybody. I've heard enough horror stories to dissuade me from such a thing, though.
That's why I'm trying to go indie with it. At least then I have some control.

Generally however, I'd like to support the thesis you have been fooled by your artist. I've worked with you briefly, and you are at least part of the very few serious individuals. You wouldn't expose yourself to liabilities such as these very early on, especially not with the sums of money and efforts you've invested in your projects. I'll have to agree however that you've made quite a few "project swings" in the last couple months/weeks. I believe serious applicants may need a tangible reason to believe that Illium isn't just another step in your "progress to the real project" aka, that it is not a standby until you get something better, not just a training of some sort.

I'm hoping to make Illium for free (or at least relatively free, obviously I'll have to pay for a VPS) as I may very well be unemployed in a few months (you might be able to guess my situation from knowing what my real job is). I hope to use my next dozen paychecks or so to build up a savings to live off of when I get out, and would rather not put half of each paycheck towards development costs.

Generally, the project sounds appealing, but you do not sound convinced/dedicated to it. The reason that strikes me for that is that you do not have the "vision". You think like an engineer, you see the technological challenge, where it will lead you, what you'll need, but you do not appear to be emotionally attached to the project, and cancelation may cause frustration, but not much more. In the industry, a producer such as me would be the reason why your project needs to go on, potentially because I represent either the publisher or the client. In the indie environment however, the producer slot normally pairs with the head developer (a designer or programmer notably). While you have the means, resources and will to proceed with that project, it seems you still need someone to set the direction and boundaries. Is my assumption correct?

Actually, it's more that this was a halfway point that the concept artist and I agreed on. He wanted to make a 3D MMO with similar mechanics (which would be significantly difficult), I wanted to make an offline 2D game with similar mechanics (which would be marginally easier). We agreed on this as it'd still be fairly easy to implement, and would make full use of my prior programming experience.
However, it's true I could use a game designer. That said, as you know, I'm now very cautious about taking one on.

I'd personally suggest hiring some kind of a serious freelancer designer, but, based on your previous venture, I'd understand your hesitation (his previous partnership with a designer didn't work so well because the designer was more interested in making "his own game" than using the bases he had laid down).

A plagiarist artist + a self-interested designer? I think your main issue Nate is to get the wrong people onboard. You might need to start asking for resumes...

I probably should, but my own resume is rather meager. I don't work in the field of software engineering (or anything directly related), have never been a part of a team that released a project (despite being a part of several projects in the past), and don't have access to the plethora of source code that I wrote while originally learning as I'm about 800 miles away from my home of residence right now. No references, little proof of my knowledge, etc. How could I, with such a meager *provable* resume, expect anything better from anyone else?
I always ask for reference to previous works. That's about it, because that's all I can provide (and only Open-Tibia, which is internally a mess due to continual developer changes, at that).
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.

#19 Orymus   Members   -  Reputation: 154

Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:59 PM

While I can relate to your situation, I see two problems:

1 - Basing your future finances on indie dev is a VERY big risk in itself. This is definitely something you want to start on the side, and let grow, to the point where you realize "ok, I can live off of this now". Like you said, poor resumes, missing references, I wouldn't bet everything on indie just yet if I were you...

2 - You have not answered my major concern I've expressed:

I'll have to agree however that you've made quite a few "project swings" in the last couple months/weeks. I believe serious applicants may need a tangible reason to believe that Illium isn't just another step in your "progress to the real project" aka, that it is not a standby until you get something better, not just a training of some sort.

Generally, the project sounds appealing, but you do not sound convinced/dedicated to it.


You can't start a project out of "despair". You really need a reason for this project to happen. I might have a hint at why you will not fail to complete this project, but I'd rather have you word it for everyone else to see so that potential partners may relate and trust you based on that. The rest will come easy once people know they won't be "wasting" their time.
The fact you were there before they invented the wheel doesn't make you any better than the wheel nor does it entitle you to claim property over the wheel. Being there at the right time just isn't enough, you need to take part into it.

I have a blog!

#20 nfries88   Members   -  Reputation: 259

Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:18 PM

While I can relate to your situation, I see two problems:

1 - Basing your future finances on indie dev is a VERY big risk in itself. This is definitely something you want to start on the side, and let grow, to the point where you realize "ok, I can live off of this now". Like you said, poor resumes, missing references, I wouldn't bet everything on indie just yet if I were you...

I'm not expecting to, although it would certainly be nice, wouldn't it?
I will probably go to college, which I will get for free. I will need my current savings (and as much as I can possibly add to it up until then) to live off of, though. That was the point I was trying to make.

2 - You have not answered my major concern I've expressed:


I'll have to agree however that you've made quite a few "project swings" in the last couple months/weeks. I believe serious applicants may need a tangible reason to believe that Illium isn't just another step in your "progress to the real project" aka, that it is not a standby until you get something better, not just a training of some sort.

Generally, the project sounds appealing, but you do not sound convinced/dedicated to it.

Such a project is honestly something I had originally intended to make several years ago (in fact, the reason for my learning programming and getting involved in an open-source MMORPG project like Open-Tibia was originally to make a similar game), so it is not some wishy-washy idea I came up with. I have a plethora of (admittedly, poorly structured) concepts for a project like this that have been bouncing around in my head for years now. If I don't seem convinced of success, it's probably because I'm a bit shaken by my recent experiences, I guess.

Regardless of doubts, I'm going forward.
Looking for paid or open-source C++ programming work. Been programming since 2005. No degree.




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