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Potential job - advice on pay negotiation?


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#21 InsaneBoarder234   Members   -  Reputation: 174

Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:25 PM

Wow thank you all for the responses! It's really helpful to have a range of perspectives on this and I'm taking notes in preparation for my visit to the factory!

To clarify a few things... I have been looking at other jobs around the £27k salary mark and I've seen plenty of graduate positions around this salary but most seem to be "bog standard" Java/PHP/web development roles and most graduates are not industry qualified (J2EE etc..)! The £100 per day was a very crude estimate based purely on a division and rounding down of the £27k salary I'm looking for because in all honesty I'm not sure what to aim for as a daily/hourly rate - I definitely want to at least match the salary I'm aiming for. Then there's issues of having no job security, the legacy technology and as highlighted here the potential dead-end for my own career development. Maybe I'm delusional but I see no rude awakening happening! I'll turn this job down at the drop of a hat if it doesn't suit me! Part of the reason this opportunity caught my eye is that it sounds like it could be a more interesting experience than churning out websites one after another (as seems to be the case with most of the graduate roles I've seen advertised)!

Regarding finding some random undergrad on the Internet I fail to see the issue - I keep hearing complaints from employers about the quality of employees found via recruitment companies. What's wrong with using the Internet to cut out the middle man and source someone yourself? Yes it's a needle in a haystack problem but sometimes you find that needle. This person has potentially seen my previous experience in developer roles, awards, and samples of my work prior to contacting me, all thanks to the Internet.

I'm going down to the factory on Thursday and many thanks to all the input here I have a good list of questions to get through before considering rates and taking on the role.
Progress is born from the opportunity to make mistakes.

My prize winning Connect 4 AI looks one move ahead, can you beat it? @nickstadb

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#22 alnite   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 24 May 2011 - 07:30 PM

Sounds like the beginning of a story for TheDailyWtf

#23 Khaiy   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1342

Posted 24 May 2011 - 09:21 PM

Regarding finding some random undergrad on the Internet I fail to see the issue - I keep hearing complaints from employers about the quality of employees found via recruitment companies. What's wrong with using the Internet to cut out the middle man and source someone yourself? Yes it's a needle in a haystack problem but sometimes you find that needle. This person has potentially seen my previous experience in developer roles, awards, and samples of my work prior to contacting me, all thanks to the Internet.

I'm going down to the factory on Thursday and many thanks to all the input here I have a good list of questions to get through before considering rates and taking on the role.


It sounds like you have pretty good perspective and planning as far as what this job can offer you, especially if it's contract work rather than a position.

Who's talking about the internet being a bad way to find employees? Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about that.

At any rate, good luck. I hope that the job ends up being something that you would enjoy and will help your career, and that you get it.

#24 d000hg   Members   -  Reputation: 713

Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:32 AM

To clarify a few things... I have been looking at other jobs around the £27k salary mark and I've seen plenty of graduate positions around this salary but most seem to be "bog standard" Java/PHP/web development roles and most graduates are not industry qualified (J2EE etc..)! The £100 per day was a very crude estimate based purely on a division and rounding down of the £27k salary I'm looking for because in all honesty I'm not sure what to aim for as a daily/hourly rate - I definitely want to at least match the salary I'm aiming for.

A very rough guide is that if you divide a salary to get an hourly/daily rate, you should look at doubling that. At the very, very least, £20/hr is OK but under that you're hardly selling yourself as a professional skilled worker.

As far as industry qualifications in Java or whatever... forget it. Unless you land a permie job where they are happy to pay for it, in which case get all you possibly can!




#25 InsaneBoarder234   Members   -  Reputation: 174

Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:00 AM

It was Antheus who mentioned finding some random undergrad on the Internet.

I wanted to say another big thanks to everyone for the comments here. I really wasn't sure what to expect on my way to the factory but it was a huge success! It is a temporary role so I went in at £200 a day/£25 an hour and they seemed more than happy with that and I've come away with a portable hard drive full of source code and some tasks to get my head around.

If that wasn't enough good news for me today I also received a phone call about a graduate job I applied for earlier in the year with the BBC and they told me I wasn't offered a place on the graduate scheme because they believe I'm beyond it so they're encouraging me to apply for a higher grade job!
Progress is born from the opportunity to make mistakes.

My prize winning Connect 4 AI looks one move ahead, can you beat it? @nickstadb

#26 d000hg   Members   -  Reputation: 713

Posted 27 May 2011 - 04:34 AM

Awesome, well done. Bet you wished you'd gone in even higher now!

How do I collect my 10% :)

#27 donkey breath   Members   -  Reputation: 206

Posted 27 May 2011 - 04:40 AM

Congratulations

If your happy with the salary and they are happy with the salary then it's a win/win.

Also gives you great experience to show to BBC.

#28 d000hg   Members   -  Reputation: 713

Posted 27 May 2011 - 07:43 AM

One final thing... if I were you I would open a new account or something, and every time I got paid, put 1/3 of the money in as tax money. You really don't want to find you have a tax bill after you spent the money, since you can't do PAYE and will have to do a tax return.

Some people start a Ltd company but if your aim is a job rather than contracting, you're probably happier as a "Sole Trader" for now. But keep your personal and 'business' money separate.

#29 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:56 AM

One final thing... if I were you I would open a new account or something, and every time I got paid, put 1/3 of the money in as tax money. You really don't want to find you have a tax bill after you spent the money, since you can't do PAYE and will have to do a tax return.

Some people start a Ltd company but if your aim is a job rather than contracting, you're probably happier as a "Sole Trader" for now. But keep your personal and 'business' money separate.


you can have taxes automatically withheld from your paycheck. I don't think he's an independent contractor, he's just a contract employee, so this should still be the case.

#30 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 27 May 2011 - 11:19 AM

Sounds like the beginning of a story for TheDailyWtf


It IS the start of at least 10 stories on the daily wtf already.

#31 d000hg   Members   -  Reputation: 713

Posted 28 May 2011 - 03:31 AM


One final thing... if I were you I would open a new account or something, and every time I got paid, put 1/3 of the money in as tax money. You really don't want to find you have a tax bill after you spent the money, since you can't do PAYE and will have to do a tax return.

Some people start a Ltd company but if your aim is a job rather than contracting, you're probably happier as a "Sole Trader" for now. But keep your personal and 'business' money separate.


you can have taxes automatically withheld from your paycheck. I don't think he's an independent contractor, he's just a contract employee, so this should still be the case.

I'd be suspicious of that. Either you're an employee or you're not - it sounds more like they hired him as a freelancer to me. I wonder if a contract is actually going to exist between them formally though, the main thing is to be sure either way. Most contractors pay their own tax, this is in fact one of the benefits to the 'employer'.

#32 maximAL   Members   -  Reputation: 229

Posted 28 May 2011 - 10:08 AM

To clarify a few things... I have been looking at other jobs around the £27k salary mark and I've seen plenty of graduate positions around this salary but most seem to be "bog standard" Java/PHP/web development roles and most graduates are not industry qualified (J2EE etc..)!

Hmm, what net income can you expect with £27k in Britain? I hadn't expected wages for software developers to be so low there...
------------------------------------------------------------Jawohl, Herr Oberst!

#33 InsaneBoarder234   Members   -  Reputation: 174

Posted 28 May 2011 - 12:04 PM

One final thing... if I were you I would open a new account or something, and every time I got paid, put 1/3 of the money in as tax money. You really don't want to find you have a tax bill after you spent the money, since you can't do PAYE and will have to do a tax return.

Some people start a Ltd company but if your aim is a job rather than contracting, you're probably happier as a "Sole Trader" for now. But keep your personal and 'business' money separate.


Good idea, thanks :-)


Hmm, what net income can you expect with £27k in Britain? I hadn't expected wages for software developers to be so low there...


According to this salary calculator the net income would be around £20,722.
Progress is born from the opportunity to make mistakes.

My prize winning Connect 4 AI looks one move ahead, can you beat it? @nickstadb




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